The Dream Team - DPChallenge Forums

08/14/2012 02:24:55 AM · #1

So we have two wealthy white guys with great hair. A Dream Team for the Republicans! But there's a bit of a glitch - one is Mormon and the other is Catholic, and there is a fairly good contingent who don't think either one is Christian. So now what?

(I honestly am curious. Also curious if anyone else is going to throw a hat into the ring as the two party shuffle is really getting monotonous.)

08/14/2012 02:33:07 AM · #2

Originally posted by Melethia:

Remember that nice little conversation we were just having over in /rant regarding the collective intelligence of our species in general?

yeah.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

08/14/2012 04:29:26 AM · #3

hoping I don't regret this...

This is the way I see it:

I believe the ? party represents the majority (yeah, the diagram is not scaled properly) of the American people. We could all agree on many things - - particularly the things that matter most to all of us in our daily lives (jobs, health, security, liberty, etc) but we have NOBODY representing the ? party, so we are all forced to choose to go all in on one of the two major parties - both of which generally produce the same results, but one a little more of this and the other a little more of that.

Personally, I believe the key to any solution has nothing to do with "them" (the powers that be) and everything to do with US (We, the people). As long as we keep throwing stones at each other and not listening to each other, all we will ever get is this back & forth shifting of power from one set of political elites to another (aka the "two party shuffle") - ALL backed by the SAME power brokers and the best we can hope for is that they throw us a bone once in awhile.

I don't pretend to have solutions to all our problems - all I would like to see is a willingness to have some civil and respectful discourse to begin with and to recognize that opposing viewpoints are valid and assume those holding them have the same good intentions I do.

To your questions on the candidates' religion - it matters not, IMO, as long as the candidates all adhere to the first amendment (no establishment of religion, etc). Frankly, I don't care about much of anything at this point in time except fixing the economy - everything else should take a backseat to that during this election cycle.

I'll stay engaged in this thread if it doesn't devolve into partisan bickering, but I'm not holding my breath.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
*Disclosure (which I think everyone involved in the discussion should be willing to reveal): I am a former liberal democrat (raised in the Bay Area), turned conservative and was republican for awhile, was involved in the tea party briefly (and still agree with many of their core views), looked seriously (and still do) at Ron Paul and the libertarian party, but has determined there really isn't much that best represents my views on all issues, so would call myself an independent. I voted for Reagan, Clinton, Ross Perot, GW Bush and McCain. I am fiscally conservative, socially mostly liberal/libertarian, in favor of very limited government, but strong on defense (when it is actually defense) and a strong constitutionalist. I am not racist, not homophobic and I am caring and compassionate. I respectfully welcome other points of view and am willing to listen to them on their merits and I try hard not to dismiss anything or accept anything until I have heard the counterarguments.

Message edited by author 2012-08-14 04:34:41.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

08/14/2012 08:38:53 AM · #4

i never understood why candidates from either party had to fit a specific mold. I agree with Ken, the majority of the population is in the middle and doesn't fully relate wholly to any party. One if these days one party will realize that having their candidate more to the middle will work out better for them and us.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

08/14/2012 08:49:39 AM · #5

I was going to respond, but then realized that Ken said what I was going to say, so just take his name of the post and put mine there. . . (which is frightening on several levels, btw).

Politics in the America just kinda depresses and frustrates me.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

Sony Sonnar FE 2.8 35mm ZA

08/14/2012 09:12:22 AM · #6

Originally posted by karmat:

+1!

jagar

Samsung Galaxy S9/S9+

08/14/2012 09:19:46 AM · #7

Originally posted by Melethia:

Originally posted by karmat:
I was going to respond, but then realized that Ken said what I was going to say, so just take his name of the post and put mine there. . . (which is frightening on several levels, btw).

Politics in the America just kinda depresses and frustrates me.

+1!

It's not just America, it's pretty much exactly the same here, there is no space to maneuver anywhere now.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

08/14/2012 11:36:19 AM · #8

Very quick search shows average net worth of members of Congress is about $850,000. Obama had a net worth of 7M or so and Romney is around 220M.

I've gotta think they all might be a bit removed from the life of the average American.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

08/14/2012 12:03:37 PM · #9

Given the state of the economy (and a few other issues), I'm appalled that any candidate would still refer to his group as a party. The party's over, guys. Start picking up the mess.

escapetooz

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

08/14/2012 12:28:25 PM · #10

This is why I would prefer ranked voting, so you can vote for a 3rd party candidate without the fear of "throwing away" your vote.

As far as the white guys with nice hair... they seem like such terrible candidates to me that I can't understand why their own party takes them seriously for any reason other than party affiliation. If they did the same exact things but called themselves democrats the republicans would be roasting them on stick.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

08/14/2012 12:53:18 PM · #11

Originally posted by escapetooz:

If they did the same exact things but called themselves democrats the republicans would be roasting them on stick.

Like Romneycare, bailouts, entitlements, deficit spending...

escapetooz

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

08/14/2012 12:58:28 PM · #12

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
If they did the same exact things but called themselves democrats the republicans would be roasting them on stick.

Like Romneycare, bailouts, entitlements, deficit spending...

Flip-flopper, limousine liberal... oh yea and the sentiment "you didn't get here on your own" that he was absolutely SMEARING Obama for saying yet he had made nearly identical speeches on.

Flash

Nikon D700

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

08/14/2012 01:43:22 PM · #13

Originally posted by Melethia:

I thought Rozanne Barr was a candidate along with Cindy Sheehan as her VP pick. Certainly that combination has appeal to many voters.

Ironic that Ryan is being cast as the villian on medicare when many Democrats were heaping praise on him for his comprehension and understanding of this issue. Amazing how quickly one goes from good guy to bad guy based on the political moment.

I shake my head at some of the dishonest adds I've seen - hoping beyond hope that some constituents aren't as stupid as I fear they are.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

08/14/2012 03:43:45 PM · #14

Might as well ignore everything either candidate says. First, little of it will have any direct relationship to reality. Second, the only thing that will matter is the unemployment rate in the next two months. I'm afraid it isn't going down fast enough to be good news for Obama versus (insert nearly anybody).

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

08/14/2012 06:37:40 PM · #15

The "Bush tax cuts" have been in effect for what, seven or eight years? If anyone was going to create any jobs based on this government largess shouldn't they have done it by now?

Corporations are sitting on piles of cash (or have stashed it in tax havens) rather than hiring -- I assume that those supporting the Republicans (i.e. large corporations) are willing to sacrifice (sabotage?) the US economy to get them into complete control so they can completely "privatize" the whole government.

The Romney tax plan will increase the tax burden of someone making under $100K (or whatever) by about $2000, while those making over $3 million will get back an extra $250K.

Sorry for sounding like a socialist (small "s") or christian (small "c"), but I don't think a system which allows some kids to go hungry and homeless while one can stash away $10 billion can be described as one of "equal opportunity" ... I don't think everyone needs to make the same, but just a little evening-out of the resources might be tolerable.

Venser

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

08/15/2012 09:41:31 AM · #16

You know what I love about politicians, their hypocrisy.
Turns out Ryan Paul was a really strong advocate for the Sanctity of Human Life Act. Under this act, in-vitro fertilization would be criminalized. Good thing he just announced the birth of his twins from a surrogate using in-vitro. I'd hate for him to walk the walk also.

edit - Yes, I know they all do it. Our federal conservative party in Canada is especially skilled in this department.

Message edited by author 2012-08-15 09:42:23.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

08/15/2012 10:22:42 AM · #17

personally i dont care to see an evening out of wealth, why should the wealthy have to foot the bill for the middle and especially lower class.

escapetooz

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

08/15/2012 11:41:32 AM · #18

Originally posted by mike_311:

personally i dont care to see an evening out of wealth, why should the wealthy have to foot the bill for the middle and especially lower class.

Because you have it backwards. The middle and lower class foots the bill for them.

The Story of Stuff breaks it down quite nicely.

We need to stop putting the wealthy on a pedestal and stop pretending they are victims. They aren't victims. This "poor little rich people" crap isn't based in any remote sort of reality.

We've had the Bush tax cuts for how long now? Where is the trickle? It's not coming because the wealthy people can afford accountants to funnel their money to offshore bank accounts, like Bain did keeping profits from a deal with Italy in Luxembourg (meaning neither the US nor Italy saw any benefits). Yay America, we love you so much we're going to keep our profits far from you and your people!

Message edited by author 2012-08-15 11:42:22.

Flash

Nikon D700

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

08/15/2012 11:57:17 AM · #19

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by mike_311:
personally i dont care to see an evening out of wealth, why should the wealthy have to foot the bill for the middle and especially lower class.

Because you have it backwards. The middle and lower class foots the bill for them.

The Story of Stuff breaks it down quite nicely.

We need to stop putting the wealthy on a pedestal and stop pretending they are victims. They aren't victims. This "poor little rich people" crap isn't based in any remote sort of reality.

We've had the Bush tax cuts for how long now? Where is the trickle? It's not coming because the wealthy people can afford accountants to funnel their money to offshore bank accounts, like Bain did keeping profits from a deal with Italy in Luxembourg (meaning neither the US nor Italy saw any benefits). Yay America, we love you so much we're going to keep our profits far from you and your people!

I remember sitting in a classroom (circa 1967) and discussing the erosion of the middle class. How we were becoming a 2 tier society - rich and poor. If I remember correctly, since then we have had a few presidents and congressional majorities of both parties. Don't ever recall such a verbose barrage of caring for the wellbeing of the middle class before though. NAFTA pretty much nailed that coffin, along with a series of low/no tariffs on imports. Everyone is complicit here.

Message edited by author 2012-08-15 12:03:01.

08/15/2012 12:03:55 PM · #20

Originally posted by escapetooz:

i dont consider them victims, i just dont see why they need to fund the lifestyles of everyone else.

im tired of hearing how the lower class are victims when they have no motivation to improve their lifestyle.

Message edited by author 2012-08-15 12:05:02.

08/15/2012 12:04:56 PM · #21

Here, just go read this, and you'll have a good understanding of about 50% of this country's problems.

08/15/2012 12:06:27 PM · #22

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by mike_311:
personally i dont care to see an evening out of wealth, why should the wealthy have to foot the bill for the middle and especially lower class.

Because you have it backwards. The middle and lower class foots the bill for them.

The Story of Stuff breaks it down quite nicely.

We need to stop putting the wealthy on a pedestal and stop pretending they are victims. They aren't victims. This "poor little rich people" crap isn't based in any remote sort of reality.

We've had the Bush tax cuts for how long now? Where is the trickle? It's not coming because the wealthy people can afford accountants to funnel their money to offshore bank accounts, like Bain did keeping profits from a deal with Italy in Luxembourg (meaning neither the US nor Italy saw any benefits). Yay America, we love you so much we're going to keep our profits far from you and your people!

i dont consider them victims, i just dont see why they need to fund the lifestyles of everyone else.

im tired of hearing how the lower class are victims when they have no motivation to improve their lifestyle.

The idea is that no one person produces a billion dollars worth of work. The only way to accumulate that sort of wealth is to siphon percentages of other people's profits from productivity into your own pocket.

08/15/2012 12:07:03 PM · #23

Originally posted by Cory:

Here, just go read this, and you'll have a good understanding of about 50% of this country's problems.

the fact the nearly 50% don't pay any?