Need technical advice - DPChallenge Forums

08/13/2011 05:51:07 AM · #1

I like my concept for the Stripes challenge, but am having trouble capturing the shot. If you have the time, and will not be voting, I posted my failed attempts on Flicker. I would appreciate any advice on how I can better capture the image, or if it isn't worth submission in the first place.

PM me and I will give you the URL.

1000 thanks.

KJ

08/15/2011 12:27:07 AM · #2

57 views, not one offer of help. Can you feel the love?

08/15/2011 12:38:21 AM · #3

Hey, I responded to your PM, doesn't that count?

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

08/15/2011 12:58:10 PM · #4

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Hey, I responded to your PM, doesn't that count?

Yes Sir, you get 100% credit for that and I thank you. I was just referring to the public post.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

08/15/2011 01:34:20 PM · #5

Veni, vidi, censuerunt

I came, I saw... I voted :-P

Message edited by author 2011-08-15 13:41:06.

Bear_Music

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

08/15/2011 02:23:27 PM · #6

Originally posted by kirbic:

Veni, vidi, censuerunt

I came, I saw... I voted :-P

"Censuerunt" is third-person perfect: "They voted." You'd want to be consistent with "Censui": "I voted."

Veni, vidi, censui...

Pedantically yours,

Ursa Putidus

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

08/15/2011 03:45:59 PM · #7

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

"Censuerunt" is third-person perfect: "They voted." You'd want to be consistent with "Censui": "I voted."

Veni, vidi, censui...

Pedantically yours,

Ursa Putidus

ROFL! Somehow, I should have *known* you would correct me! Good thing I wasn't drinking coffee at the moment. I guess it shows that I flunked out of altar-boy class ;-)

Humbly Yours,

kirbicus Calvus

Message edited by author 2011-08-15 15:46:57.

08/18/2011 02:16:34 AM · #8

Originally posted by kirbic:

Veni, vidi, censuerunt

I came, I saw... I voted :-P

Whatever the correct gramatical phrase is in Latin, I fail to see the relevance to the thread. I was under the impression, (mistaken perhaps) that the goal of this website was just not to win competitions, but rather to improve ones skills in the artform.

From Help menu, "About: "DPChallenge was created in January 2002 by two friends, Drew Ungvarsky (drewmedia) and Langdon Oliver (langdon). The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week."

Here are some stats from a half dozen or so of my recent entries:
Tink four 2's, ten 3's no negative comments, Avg (commenters): 7.5000
Arizona Mirage Three 1's, four 2's, nine 3's, no negative comments, Avg (commenters): 9.3333
Cubics Rube Two 2's, five 3's no comments
Value Invert My Soul twelve 1's, twelve 2's, twenty 3's, Brown Ribbon No negative comments, Avg (commenters): 5.8000
Crossroads one 1's, seven 2's, one 3, no negative comments Avg (commenters): 7.0000 (Thanks Posthumous)
Herring Nightmare one 1, two 2's, four 3's, no negative comments, Avg (commenters): 6.4286

Under DPC Voting Rules, YOU SHOULD: offer constructive criticism with any vote of 3 or lower. It is my humble opinion that that rule should be changed to YOU MUST

How am I to improve my photography if all comments left are glowing, and my public appeals for help are ignored or responded to with harsh criticism?

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

08/18/2011 09:05:53 AM · #9

Originally posted by PetRock:

Originally posted by kirbic:
Veni, vidi, censuerunt

I came, I saw... I voted :-P

Whatever the correct gramatical phrase is in Latin, I fail to see the relevance to the thread.

The relevance was, I saw your thread and I would have been willing to help, but I fully intended to vote (and now have voted) 100% of the challenge. Therefore I had a conflict.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

08/18/2011 09:19:30 AM · #10

What I think he is saying is that you did receive his feedback, in the form of his vote.

It is a huge chore to try and leave useful comments on everything one votes on. When I started here on DPC, I made a point of commenting on everything I left a 4 or 5 on, but I could not vote 100% doing this. I usually got between 20-30% on most challenges. By making myself analyze why I thought an entry was "just ok" but not great, and not awful either, I learned a lot that I could apply to my own photography. I have tapered off a lot from that, and my commenting style has changed, but I think I still comment on the heavy side compared to many.

Your own commenting stats shows me that you have made less than half the number of comments you have received. My best suggestion is to reverse that trend and start commenting heavily. Leave diplomatic critiques if you don't care for a certain entry. Comment more heavily on the mediocre votes you leave. When you don't care for a photo, sometimes it is genuine flaws, other times it is your own personal preferences at work. You'll learn the difference as you go along. A side benefit is that you will sometimes get a response from the photographer and you will develop some friendships with other members. These people can be very helpful with well intentioned feedback on future entries.

Message edited by author 2011-08-18 09:20:19.

EL-ROI

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

08/18/2011 09:29:08 AM · #11

Originally posted by PetRock:

Originally posted by kirbic:
Veni, vidi, censuerunt

I came, I saw... I voted :-P

Whatever the correct gramatical phrase is in Latin, I fail to see the relevance to the thread. I was under the impression, (mistaken perhaps) that the goal of this website was just not to win competitions, but rather to improve ones skills in the artform.

From Help menu, "About: "DPChallenge was created in January 2002 by two friends, Drew Ungvarsky (drewmedia) and Langdon Oliver (langdon). The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week."

Here are some stats from a half dozen or so of my recent entries:
Tink four 2's, ten 3's no negative comments, Avg (commenters): 7.5000
Arizona Mirage Three 1's, four 2's, nine 3's, no negative comments, Avg (commenters): 9.3333
Cubics Rube Two 2's, five 3's no comments
Value Invert My Soul twelve 1's, twelve 2's, twenty 3's, Brown Ribbon No negative comments, Avg (commenters): 5.8000
Crossroads one 1's, seven 2's, one 3, no negative comments Avg (commenters): 7.0000 (Thanks Posthumous)
Herring Nightmare one 1, two 2's, four 3's, no negative comments, Avg (commenters): 6.4286

Under DPC Voting Rules, YOU SHOULD: offer constructive criticism with any vote of 3 or lower. It is my humble opinion that that rule should be changed to YOU MUST

How am I to improve my photography if all comments left are glowing, and my public appeals for help are ignored or responded to with harsh criticism?

As with any large organization there has been mission creep. The original intent of the creators of the community was to help each other with their photography. Since the community has grown from it's original small group of creators it has become less a teaching web site and more a challenge web site where learning is done independent of the site and put on display by the individual in his/her personal page through the entering of challenges. Hopefully a progression is seen by the individual photographer through the years spent entering challenges. The learning and mentoring is not offered unless the photogrpaher asks and becomes an integral part of the community.

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Canon

08/18/2011 09:52:00 AM · #12

Originally posted by EL-ROI:

The learning and mentoring is not offered unless the photogrpaher asks and becomes an integral part of the community.

Very true. I spent about an hour on the phone the other night with a former member who is in my local area. I had noticed his link in my list of "DPC'ers I have met" was no longer a link and had inquired about it. His complaint about DPC (and also about Flickr) was that he was posting and entering and sometimes commenting, and not getting the feedback he was led to believe he would get. It just was not his thing. He wants to take photos and associate with others who have a similar interest. He is not terribly computer savvy and does not go for the heavy PP that usually gets the most attention. The final straw for him was getting DQ'd from a minimal editing challenge. (He had not read the rules and had cropped his entry)

james_so

Canon EOS 77D

08/18/2011 10:49:38 AM · #13

Originally posted by PetRock:

How am I to improve my photography if all comments left are glowing, and my public appeals for help are ignored or responded to with harsh criticism?

Do you leave constructive criticisms on the photos you score low, a quick look through your comments left would suggest that either you do not, or you rarely score photos low.

Either way, your comments are mostly exactly the sort you are complaining about, you would learn much more by being more critical about others photos rather than waiting for people to tell you what they don't like about your photos. ;)

You're also expecting people to do much more than simply comment, they have to PM you for a link then go to flicker (and possibly get an account there) before they can comment, you have a membership here so why not put the photos you want advice on in your portfolio?

Message edited by author 2011-08-18 10:51:56.

mbrutus2009

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35 f/4 ED VR

08/18/2011 10:54:56 AM · #14

Originally posted by james_so:

you would learn much more by being more critical about others photos rather than waiting for people to tell you what they don't like about your photos. ;)

I agree with this statement soooo much!

Take a challenge when you know you are not doing much the week of voting and try to comment on 100% of the images AND leaving comments that try to help the photographer... No matter how good they are. Try to find something you don't like (hard sometimes). To me this little challenge I set for myself about a month ago helped me grow as a photographer by about ten notches. By the time I was finished I took a photo and thought to myself.. If I can find one thing I don't like about my own photo then I can change it...

08/19/2011 12:58:19 AM · #15

You are absolutely correct sir, I rarely score a photo in the 1-3 range, because for me, a 1 says "your photo is absolute shit:", and I rarely see photos that deserve that rating. Can you say the same?
So I am consistently following the guidelines of DPC, and if I ever do score a photo a 1, I generally say why. I have exhibited 20 scores of ones who do not follow that policy. You are somehow implying that I am guilty of the same behavior?

My comments are in no way the same as those I am complaining about. My complaint is THE LACK of comments for low scores, not the warm fuzzies I receive. I love the warm fuzzies. I just can not reconcile the number of positive comments with my overall score. Consider my Bugs Life score: 17 positive comments: no negative, Twelve 1's. twelve 2's. thirteen 3's, Avg (commenters): 7.3750, Avg (all users): 5.0511

As far as the complexity of my public appeal, I have seen many, many similar requests. Have you been oblivious to these? I formatted my request to those I have seen previously posted. Tell me, how would YOU ask for assistance? I would really like to know. How could I simplify my plea for help?

Originally posted by james_so:

Originally posted by PetRock:
How am I to improve my photography if all comments left are glowing, and my public appeals for help are ignored or responded to with harsh criticism?

Do you leave constructive criticisms on the photos you score low, a quick look through your comments left would suggest that either you do not, or you rarely score photos low.

Either way, your comments are mostly exactly the sort you are complaining about, you would learn much more by being more critical about others photos rather than waiting for people to tell you what they don't like about your photos. ;)

You're also expecting people to do much more than simply comment, they have to PM you for a link then go to flicker (and possibly get an account there) before they can comment, you have a membership here so why not put the photos you want advice on in your portfolio?

Message edited by author 2011-08-19 01:17:53.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

08/19/2011 01:09:41 AM · #16

Originally posted by PetRock:

You are absolutely correct sir, I rarely score in the 1-3 range, because for me, a 1 says "your photo is absolute shit:", and I rarely see photos that deserve that rating. Can you say the same?
So I am consistently following the guidelines of DPC, and if I ever do score a photo a 1, I generally say why. I have exhibited 20 scores of ones who do not follow that policy. You are somehow implying that I am guilty of the same behavior?

I didn't get that out of what he said in any way. He was suggesting the same thing that I did. Regardless of what your criteria for rating entries is, there are some that you feel are mediocre. They just don't grab you in any way, but they are not awful either. There is a lot to be gained by commenting on those.

tanguera

Nikon D750

08/19/2011 01:16:18 AM · #17

One of the most fun and surefire ways of learning stuff on DPC is to participate in the side challenges. For me, these are the main stuff of DPC - the voting challenges just get the most attention. But in terms of feedback and trying new techniques, and getting the support you're seeking, you've gotta enter some side challenges.

bspurgeon

Fujifilm x100

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

08/19/2011 03:36:24 AM · #18

As requested, I left you negative (sort of) comments (feedback) on the images you posted. Cheers.

BTW, I don't care why somebody gives me a 1. I don't need to know. The vote is enough to tell me they did not like it, and I happily accept it. As a generalization, the feedback you are yearning for likely needs to come from the folks who give you a 4-6. They are the voters who did not hate it or love it. A boring vote, yes? ;) However, this is your "focus group", ask them why they didn't hate it and why they didn't love it...or...continue to make images that will satisfy your itch to create, and strive to master that aspect of your craft. This may or may not result in higher scores, ribbons, etc.; I suppose that depends if you have an itch like

gyaban or

jmritz .

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Canon

08/19/2011 04:00:01 AM · #19

Without having read your comments, I again refer to the DPC guidelines, which state scores of 1 - 3 should be accompanied by "constructive" comments. I will take negative, but it is just too easy to press that 1, there should be some accountability, as suggested by the guidelines.

Thank you for the feedback.

Originally posted by bspurgeon:

james_so

Canon EOS 77D

08/19/2011 09:56:42 AM · #20

Originally posted by PetRock:

Overall I cannot say for sure as I do not recall my votes from several years ago and have no inclination to go and look through them all, in the last few months of activity however yes, I can.

Originally posted by PetRock:

So I am consistently following the guidelines of DPC, and if I ever do score a photo a 1, I generally say why. I have exhibited 20 scores of ones who do not follow that policy. You are somehow implying that I am guilty of the same behavior?

Originally posted by PetRock:

My comments are in no way the same as those I am complaining about. My complaint is THE LACK of comments for low scores, not the warm fuzzies I receive. I love the warm fuzzies. I just can not reconcile the number of positive comments with my overall score. Consider my Bugs Life score: 17 positive comments: no negative, Twelve 1's. twelve 2's. thirteen 3's, Avg (commenters): 7.3750, Avg (all users): 5.0511

As far as the complexity of my public appeal, I have seen many, many similar requests. Have you been oblivious to these? I formatted my request to those I have seen previously posted. Tell me, how would YOU ask for assistance? I would really like to know. How could I simplify my plea for help?

No I have not been oblivious to them, I am merely more vocal now in trying to help people understand why things are the way they are. I am sorry that you take my reply as criticism but it is what you asked for, it does leave me wondering how you would react if I offered criticism of one of your photos.

Your original request was different to that which we are discussing now, however if you had read fully those previous requests you would in many cases have seen much the same responses as you have received from me, the essence of which is that commenting on others photos is much more likely to improve your images than the comments you receive. In answer to your question, I probably wouldn't ask for such assistance, the lack of any thread in which I do so is evidence of that is it not?

FWIW, I did not vote on the bugs life challenge but having looked at your entry I can understand why it got the low votes as it would appear to be DNMC, I would have scored it a 6 however for being out of the box, the processing looks slightly OTT but that could just be the light as it is quite a long exposure. Also I cannot see where the focus is (it all looks a bit soft), possibly due to camera shake, difficult to tell which, bad focus or shake. I do however err on the side of negativity, without the mentioned issues it would have got a 7.

08/22/2011 12:09:00 AM · #21

Regarding your comments below:

You misinterpreted my statement, I take fault in being unclear. The twenty 1's I was referring to were 1's left on my photos accompanied by no commentary. I already stated that on the rare occasion I assign a one, I leave a comment why. Last case in my memory is when in the Battery challenge I commented on the display of a generator.

I have considered the feedback regarding leaving comments as a learning experience, and have replied in PM in response. Not publicly, for that is not one of the DPC guidelines I am disgruntled about, rather the lack of comments.

My original thread was a plea for help which was left unanswered. Again, if I don't receive constructive criticism, nor help when I request it, how else (other than the aforementioned advice) am I to improve? Since that thread died out quickly, I changed the topic.

That you ask not for help does not address the question of how you *would* ask. As for the Bugs Life, I understand how some would consider it DNMC (although not a one stated that in the comments), however I defend it by the challenge definition, where "bugs" appered in quotes, which I interpreted as giving lattitude. In contrast, a week later, Macro, not Bugs or Flowers challenge contailed a detailed description of what consisted of a "Bug".

quote=james_so]

Originally posted by PetRock:

Overall I cannot say for sure as I do not recall my votes from several years ago and have no inclination to go and look through them all, in the last few months of activity however yes, I can.

Originally posted by PetRock:

That statement is contradictory, by your own interpretation you are not consistently following the guidelines of DPC unless you leave a constructive comment on all votes of 1-3, when you have done so on those 20 mentioned above you will have been consistent.

I am not implying anything, merely making an observation, you have however seemingly just admitted to the behaviour you dislike..

Your original request was different to that which we are discussing now, however if you had read fully those previous requests you would in many cases have seen much the same responses as you have received from me, the essence of which is that commenting on others photos is much more likely to improve your images than the comments you receive. In answer to your question, I probably wouldn't ask for such assistance, the lack of any thread in which I do so is evidence of that is it not?

FWIW, I did not vote on the bugs life challenge but having looked at your entry I can understand why it got the low votes as it would appear to be DNMC, I would have scored it a 6 however for being out of the box, the processing looks slightly OTT but that could just be the light as it is quite a long exposure. Also I cannot see where the focus is (it all looks a bit soft), possibly due to camera shake, difficult to tell which, bad focus or shake. I do however err on the side of negativity, without the mentioned issues it would have got a 7. [/quote]

Message edited by author 2011-08-22 01:39:13.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

08/22/2011 12:41:18 AM · #22

Despite being encouraged to do so, I rarely leave comments on photos I vote low. Why? Because they're rarely appreciated and often lead to the photographer taking offense at their photo's shortcomings being pointed out.

08/22/2011 01:41:38 AM · #23

Originally posted by Spork99:

So, rather than leaving "food for thought", you leave them starving, destined to repeat their same mistakes?

08/22/2011 01:41:57 AM · #24

Originally posted by Spork99:

So, rather than leaving "food for thought", you leave them starving, destined to repeat their same mistakes?