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08/09/2011 07:00:21 AM · #1
the thread on scoring got me thinking.

i care more about getting comments than i do about the score (unless its ribbon worthy :) ) so is there any way that we can increase the number of comments that are given out in challenges. Maybe offer some kind of incentive like a star or badge for your profile if you comment on so many images or average so many comments or percent per challenge?

any other ideas?
08/09/2011 07:08:58 AM · #2
I think there is an unofficial badge that some people post on their profiles for commenting 100% (21_F.gif Judi is the 'owner, if I remember right). More than sheer quantity of comments though is quality and value. I would far rather receive one critique than a host of lovely's (and before anyone says it, yes, I give out plenty of one word immediate responses to photos I particularly like). I have one comment from a baghead on my abandonded building entry which I especially appreciate - the commenter has actually picked up on things I was already aware of, but has reinforced what I thought, and persuaded me to try a re-edit when I have the time.
08/09/2011 07:58:00 AM · #3
The day you have something other than the imagery itself inspiring comments is the day that the quality of comments tanks. I'd rather know that my photograph, and not the promise of a bling thing, moved you to comment. The number of comments is often just as telling as their content.

Not saying there isn't an issue. It's discouraging for me to go through the results of a free study, say, and see mine as the only comment on a number of entries. (I represent counterculture and unpopular thinking, remember.) And this seems to be happening more frequently lately. Maybe it's the season. The occasional rallies (a la 21_N.gif Melethia) are helpful. I don't know the answer. But I'm pretty sure dangling a carrot isn't it.
08/09/2011 09:01:21 AM · #4
I have to admit, that my own commenting has tapered off a lot, though I think my ratio is on the heavy side and I still give at least as many as I get, on average. When I was new on the site, I would vote only 20-30% of a challenge and comment on at least everything I gave a 5 to. I learned an awful lot from making myself analyze why an entry didn't grab my attention much. I have seen many others who have gone the same route and tapered off. I also see many complaining about voting. 339 entries in the freestudy and I got less than half that number of votes.

As much as I like getting comments, I am agreeing with Brian, that the comments are a positive indicator for images of narrower appeal. They tell you that you still nailed your target, even if the masses don't care for it. I've had low scoring images that were successful and 6+'s that I consider failures, because of the comments that they did or did not pull in.
08/09/2011 09:15:49 AM · #5
Grog goes through seasonal illiteracy. We all suffer from it in the summer. I think it'll ramp up as people get back into their post-summer routines and the weather worsens (up north, at least).
08/09/2011 10:06:51 AM · #6
I agree that an incentive or requirement for commenting will create a significant number of meaningless comments. When they had the pop up message for low votes requesting a comment, people often just put in a single letter to meet the requirement. The best way to get comments is to participate in a side challenge.
08/09/2011 11:08:19 AM · #7
Originally posted by mike_311:

the thread on scoring got me thinking.

i care more about getting comments than i do about the score...

... any other ideas?


If you want to get grow, develop and take better photographs then you might reflect on whether you'd be better off not getting any comments at all.

If you just want to be celebrated though, you'll need the most comments you can get; nothing else matters in that case.

Comments are like TV ratings; they measure what's popular to look at. Alas, it's seldom worth watching.
08/09/2011 11:32:32 AM · #8
Originally posted by ubique:

If you just want to be celebrated though, you'll need the most comments you can get; nothing else matters in that case.

Comments are like TV ratings; they measure what's popular to look at. Alas, it's seldom worth watching.


Nice to see you back, Paul, where have you been?

Must disagree with your above statement, however. Comments can certainly be used to fine tune your broad appeal, and that certainly can restict you to doing only what scores well. They can also be a good measure to tell if a lower rated entry hit it's intended audience. For instance, I know several people who gauge the effectiveness of their entries by how many offended comments are pulled in.
08/09/2011 11:42:17 AM · #9
Originally posted by mike_311:

the thread on scoring got me thinking.

i care more about getting comments than i do about the score (unless its ribbon worthy :) ) so is there any way that we can increase the number of comments that are given out in challenges. Maybe offer some kind of incentive like a star or badge for your profile if you comment on so many images or average so many comments or percent per challenge?

any other ideas?


This thinking of offering incentive to comment is backwards. The photographer should be the one who seizes the responsibility to create an image thought provoking enough to generate a wealth of comments.

Of course, if the image is too shocking, then dead silence may often be deafening but I'm uncertain if that reaction is more rewarding or not...;-)

Message edited by author 2011-08-09 11:42:38.
08/09/2011 11:51:51 AM · #10
If you have bare breasts in your photo, it will get more comments.
08/09/2011 11:56:19 AM · #11
Originally posted by ubique:

... Comments are like TV ratings; they measure what's popular to look at. Alas, it's seldom worth watching.

I disagree. I think the scores are like TV ratings. I have found some comments very helpful, and I have learned a lot from them.
08/09/2011 11:58:22 AM · #12
Originally posted by mike_311:

the thread on scoring got me thinking.

i care more about getting comments than i do about the score (unless its ribbon worthy :) ) so is there any way that we can increase the number of comments that are given out in challenges. Maybe offer some kind of incentive like a star or badge for your profile if you comment on so many images or average so many comments or percent per challenge?

any other ideas?


I'll turn your question round at point it back at you. What would make you,21.gif mike_311 comment more?
08/09/2011 12:01:56 PM · #13
you guy make good points that incentives may not make good comments. incentives are only a suggestion i had, but apparently it is unfavorable to many.

the problem i see with the current system is if i put out a good image that score high i get lots of "wow, good job" or "great image". while that is great and certainly ego stroking, i usually know my image is good, because its scoring well. i prefer to get comments on my lower rated images telling me how i missed the mark.

im just wondering if there is a way to encourage voters to leave some sort of feedback or critique when they vote even if its just a simple reminder on the voting page.

i usually try to comment on as many as i can while voting, if only to teach myself not to make the same mistakes.
08/09/2011 12:07:09 PM · #14
If you have a photo that you want some input on why not just make a thread here: http://www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=list&FORUM_SECTION_ID=18
08/09/2011 12:10:39 PM · #15
Originally posted by mike_311:

i prefer to get comments on my lower rated images telling me how i missed the mark.

im just wondering if there is a way to encourage voters to leave some sort of feedback or critique when they vote even if its just a simple reminder on the voting page.


Perhaps, you should just ask for a critique from some photographers whose opinion you trust and respect. ;-)

A Top Opinionator may be worth platinum compared to gleaning bits of gold from a set of arbitrary comments.
08/09/2011 12:13:18 PM · #16
I think if we took away the option to mark a comment as helpful or not, it would probably raise the amount of comments given on the site.

This is not Ebay where we need to see how reliably our commentary is helpful to or regarded well by the reciever. A comment is specifically that, A COMMENT. It is not a critique. And as it is not a critique, it should not matter whether it was "helpful". Often, comments on this site are critiques. And sometimes a comment is just a way for me to communicate something to the artist and is in no way relative to the work.

That is okay too, as it is a comment.

If people want a critique, there are places on this site to ask for it, but comments should not be considered that place---I think that is the disappointment many feel with the site. They want someone judging 100 photos in a challenge to leave an insightful one paragraph response on why they voted their abstract of a seagull's head in a McDonald's cup poorly. Ain't gonna happen.
08/09/2011 12:18:53 PM · #17
Originally posted by hihosilver:

Perhaps, you should just ask for a critique from some photographers whose opinion you trust and respect. ;-)

Some of the best and most helpful comments to be had are the blunt but well intentioned feedback from others prior to a challenge. Find a couple of people whose opinions you respect and bounce challenge entries off each other. If you feel it biases you, then simply skip the vote on those entries you have given feedback on. The "help! which one?!" feedback club

That does not mean the others are always right. I've had a couple of duds in last years DPL that were the ones all my teammates said were the strong entries. You also have to intrerpret the feedback, and sometimes trust your gut feeling.
08/09/2011 12:34:23 PM · #18
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

You also have to interpret the feedback, and sometimes trust your gut feeling.


So true...;-)

For me, a Top Opinionator may be defined as someone who opens up the heart of my own style as opposed to stamping their own style on my image. Those ultra heroes are worth their weight in platinum purely because that kind of trustworthy experience is so hard to find...;-)

08/09/2011 12:50:55 PM · #19
Originally posted by crowis:

...If people want a critique, there are places on this site to ask for it, but comments should not be considered that place---I think that is the disappointment many feel with the site. They want someone judging 100 photos in a challenge to leave an insightful one paragraph response on why they voted their abstract of a seagull's head in a McDonald's cup poorly. Ain't gonna happen.


Thank you. Yours are words that should be repeated every time this subject comes up.

There are many people here, myself included, that expect to get advice from comments (the way we used to when I started here). Current experience shows that this is no longer the case - you have to be forceful and ask for help instead of expecting it magically appear. Unfortunately, for the quiet majority this can be a difficult thing to do.
08/09/2011 12:52:47 PM · #20
Originally posted by JuliBoc:

Originally posted by ubique:

... Comments are like TV ratings; they measure what's popular to look at. Alas, it's seldom worth watching.

I disagree. I think the scores are like TV ratings. I have found some comments very helpful, and I have learned a lot from them.


I think he was referring to "number of comments" not comments in general. What is often lacking when you receive lots of comments (i.e. the photo is popular) is that the comments tend to say little. They are mostly just congratulatory and focus on the things that allowed it to be easily consumed. Popular images are like fast food and candy. They produce an immediate rush but do little to nourish the soul.

Message edited by author 2011-08-09 12:53:47.
08/09/2011 01:31:54 PM · #21
Originally posted by mike_311:

i prefer to get comments on my lower rated images telling me how i missed the mark.

Here we go again. A lower rated image does not necessarily mean you missed the proverbial mark.

And a comment absolutely can be a critique. It can be a recipe for chicken soup if that's what I dump into the box. But the point is made: There should be no expectation from comments -- not even that you receive any. You get what you get.
08/09/2011 02:02:15 PM · #22
Ah, commenting zen by bvy. We ought to retitle: how to receive commenting. Eat your chicken soup why don't you.

08/09/2011 02:12:00 PM · #23
Originally posted by bvy:

Originally posted by mike_311:

i prefer to get comments on my lower rated images telling me how i missed the mark.

Here we go again. A lower rated image does not necessarily mean you missed the proverbial mark.

And a comment absolutely can be a critique. It can be a recipe for chicken soup if that's what I dump into the box. But the point is made: There should be no expectation from comments -- not even that you receive any. You get what you get.


You have got to do that at some point. LOL. Can you please go to my profile and comment on one of my pics with a chicken soup recipe so I can mark it as useful. That is frickin' awesome. LOL.
08/09/2011 02:20:07 PM · #24
folks who enter competitions should get in a space craft and orbit the earth at near light speed that will give people who elect to vote time to comment...... sorted :-)
08/09/2011 02:38:32 PM · #25
@31.gif Paynekj...I don't know that any magical advice exists within the commenting realm.

And, I'm puzzled that you think asking for advice requires a "forceful" approach?

Being an effective pest requires politeness and charm...;-)

The value of the comment remains within the context that someone took the time to share their thoughts.

For this effort, I am always deeply appreciative to my heroes.

Message edited by author 2011-08-09 16:10:15.
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