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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> This challenge has ended it for me I think..
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05/20/2011 06:33:28 PM · #1
I think I am done with this site for awhile. I cannot seem to find the enjoyment I was hoping for. I find myself more aggravated about the voting practices then anything else. I know I am not alone in this, but for me, why spend hours doing something, 100's of pictures to have people throw 1's and 2's at you with out any reasoning or care in the world about it. I dont pretend that my shot is an 8 or anything, but this is just ridiculous.

With 50 votes, over 100 views.. and not ONE single comment. If I take out all the low crap and all the high stuff, im sitting at about 5.3. If I just take out the low stuff as I cant imaging anyone truly HATING my picture (which is what a 1 is to me) im sitting at about 5.5. I thought this was a 6, but apparently I was wrong (as this seems to also be a growing trend), however I know it is NOT a 1 or a 2. I just can't imagine hating a picture that much, or ignoring the work and time someone put into something to basically tell them their picture is garbage, while hiding behind their vote. (yes I feel that strongly about it)

Is this most of the people on here, well of course not. But as the old saying goes.. only takes a few to ruin it for the many.

We offer suggestions on how to make it better, but most people on here are opposed to change, no we cant do that, no I dont want to have to do that. So it stays the same. Again, I want to be clear, I am not delusional enough to think this is an award winning picture, but I put a lot of heart, soul, time and effort into this picture. And I believe I at least deserve the common decency to tell me why you absolutely HATE my picture.

And lets just say they dont hate it, they think I broke a rule or something (tho I cant for the life of me figure out why with my image you would think that) but lets pretend, they say, hey great shot, but you broke a rule so I have to tank it. At least I would know, I could learn from it, better myself which is why I joined the site. Its like my last picture, some bonehead (dont recall his name and to lazy to look it up) put the comment as..'Hate your border' ok.. thats fair, but out of curiosity.. what did you think of the PICTURE?! you know, as its a picture challenge. You want to dock for the boarder, fair enough I suppose, but at least say something about the actual image too!

05/20/2011 06:37:58 PM · #2
.. don't give yup yet - you've still got a lot to learn from this site.

Trust me, give it some time and you'll be laughing about the fact that there are a lot of 1's and 2's that go out to good photos.. you'll even find yourself entering challenges just for fun even though you know the photo will score poorly

just give it some time!
05/20/2011 06:43:33 PM · #3
I'll comment, if you like. If the picture you're talking about is still in a challenge, you can PM me the challenge it's in and the title, and I'll give a comprehensive critique. It will be honest. I will refrain from voting on the image. If the image is in your portfolio now, post a thumb.
05/20/2011 06:43:55 PM · #4
You've only been at it here for less than two months. Keep at it, fuck the scores and enjoy yourself.
05/20/2011 06:48:20 PM · #5
Originally posted by Louis:

I'll comment, if you like. If the picture you're talking about is still in a challenge, you can PM me the challenge it's in and the title, and I'll give a comprehensive critique. It will be honest. I will refrain from voting on the image. If the image is in your portfolio now, post a thumb.

Same.

It's sure nice to get comments though. And not so when you don't.
Never expect to get comments. Always expect to get 1's and 2's. They go with this territory.
05/20/2011 06:50:27 PM · #6
It can get frustrating when one of your photos gets a mediocre score along with no comments to clue you in as to why. But, as 21.gif Dudski said, there is a lot to learn from this site. I feel like I have learned more than I can list, even if sometimes my entries don't show it.

One thing that you can do is post your photo up for comment after the challenge is over. Most times the members will offer their honest opinion on your entry with the intent on helping you to improve. If you see a photo that you especially like or is technically excellent, most members are happy to share their set-up and processing tips if you ask. The general feeling around here is that we all have a lot to learn and we will all grow as photographers and artists by working together.

Before I found DPC I participated on a couple of magazine galleries. Got a lot of good comments, but I wasn't really learning anything. Even though DPC can sometimes be harsh, the opportunity to learn cannot be beat. Just be patient.
05/20/2011 06:56:53 PM · #7
I'm interested in finding out which challenge you're in. Like 21.gif Louissaid, I'll comment on your image and do my best to give you something constructive.
I know this site can be frustrating sometimes, especially when you feel like your picture is worth more than what you're getting... So I understand.
05/20/2011 06:57:34 PM · #8
art is personal, when people don't like it, it hurts. thats just the way it is, you'll never make something that appeals to everyone. the sooner you learn that and grow a thicker skin the better off you'll be

Message edited by author 2011-05-20 18:57:56.
05/20/2011 07:04:59 PM · #9
21.gif Socom, one of the ways to learn on this site is to comment on the other images in the Challenge.
So, if you don't happen to get comments on your entry, try commenting on the other images and help someone else out. You will be amazed at what you learn in the process. And then, as they say, "what goes around, comes around."
You're hearing this advice from someone for whom "4" is the new "5" and I'm just about as happy about that as you are about your lowish scores.
:(
Hang in there.
05/20/2011 07:16:01 PM · #10
As others have stated...hang in there. You have come in hard and it seems you care about what you are doing. Use that energy, that enthusiasm, don't let a few votes (or a lot!) bother you. This place is more about learning how to see and try new things, and because of that, you are growing. When I first got here, I thought I knew what I was doing, but looking back on my first few months of work on the site...i cringe. Your growth and your development are up to you, and DPC is a great place to find that voice you are looking for.

And as 21_F.gif sfalice said...one of the best ways to use the site is to critically assess others works...My scores started to increase significantly once I took the time to look at others work. Some 12000 comments later, I am finally getting the hang of it around here...
05/20/2011 07:37:59 PM · #11
OK, going to play Devils advocate here, but thats just me, so bear with me..

I think you are experiencing one of the major problems with new people who come to DPC. That is, in the `real world` you probably take very nice photos, probably a lot better than your peers. Friends & family comment on them and tell you how good they are. You decide to search for some photography competitions as you think you might be able to win something - you search for "digital photography competition" on google. and look, the top hit is DPCHallenge.com - you join up, pick a challenge - then thats where it all starts to fall apart - now you are up against some incredibly talented photographers, and those photos you take that all your friends and fmaily compliment you on, get chewed up and spat out in your first few challenges.

Its tough, and it can hurt to be told your photos lack in certain aspects, or even more infuriating is hitting mid-table mediocrity, where your images are not good enough to attract lots of comments but on the flip side they are not quite bad enough to gain a lot of negative comments.

Dejected and possibly annoyed, one leaves and doesn't come back.

Maybe thats not EXACTLY right, but probably in the right ballpark. So, how do we fix this? Well, I had an idea a while back where there are a set of rotating challenges that run for 6 months or so - new (paid) members can opt to enter these challenges and cut their teeth against others of the same ability - this gives them 6 months to find their feet on DPC. Only new members can join these challenges - once the member has entered a mainstream challenge or have completed the 6 month rotational challenges (these would be challenges based on technical areas, such as rule of thirds, bokeh, landscape, portraits etc) then they can no longer enter the beginners challenges and instead need to enter the `big boys` challenges. Oh, and only 6 month+ members can vote and comment on the beginners challenges.

So who benefits from this? Well, new members obviously, older members as they can help the `new generation` of DPCers when they need it most, the site as to enter `beginners` challenges one needs to be a paid member (on a special 6 months subscription) - we retain more members as people feel they don`t have to dive in at the deep end straight away and loads more.... Look, I probably haven`t explained it very well but it would be very do`able.

However, please be aware these could just be the musings of a madman.
05/20/2011 07:50:59 PM · #12
Putting things in perspective.

Just had a look at your profile
You have entered only 9 challenges
In the time you have been here the following are the number of comments both made and received

Comments:
Made: 27
Received: 59

Of the 27 comments you have made 11 of them are replies to comments you received.
You have only made 16 comments on other images.

Why would you complain about not receiving comments when you give out so few comments yourself?

I joined back in October 2005.
Scores were low
Got my first ribbon "4" years later
Have done exceptionally well this year for ribbons but that is over 5 years from when I joined and I still can't believe it when I get one.

Toughen up
Keep entering
Make comments on others and learn from their mistakes

05/20/2011 07:55:59 PM · #13
I'm curious which of the challenges you are in, most because I was cruising along at a 6.4 and dropped to a 5.8 over the last couple of hours. Those dips can hurt because you know somebody had to hit an entry with a really low score to drop in that much.

But, I don't think dpchallenge should really be about the scores anyway. I believe the site started so photographers had a reason to shoot and a reason to challenge themselves. The contest and scoring were to add some interest and a little push to try harder. So what if some people get cranky about their scoring... they cannot do anything real to you unless you let them. I'm actually starting to enjoy shooting my way and am looking forward to watching the cranky one flutter about.

It is your photography... your vision. The only reason to be upset with a challenge is if you let yourself down.
05/20/2011 08:00:36 PM · #14
Originally posted by RamblinR:

Putting things in perspective.

Just had a look at your profile
You have entered only 9 challenges
In the time you have been here the following are the number of comments both made and received

Comments:
Made: 27
Received: 59

Of the 27 comments you have made 11 of them are replies to comments you received.
You have only made 16 comments on other images.

Why would you complain about not receiving comments when you give out so few comments yourself?

I joined back in October 2005.
Scores were low
Got my first ribbon "4" years later
Have done exceptionally well this year for ribbons but that is over 5 years from when I joined and I still can't believe it when I get one.

Toughen up
Keep entering
Make comments on others and learn from their mistakes


I defer to Maria. She said everything I was going to say.
05/20/2011 08:01:11 PM · #15
The only way to keep your sanity here is to:

1. Don't compete against others. Compete against yourself. I still consider a successful challenge to be one where I beat my own average. Anything else is just icing on the cake.

2. Don't expect comments. They're nice when they happen, but they are few and far between. However, that being said, there are many people who are willing to give constructive criticism when asked. Ask.

3. Realize that there are some weird challenges. Light on white is one of them. You're not the only one getting strange votes. People have different expectations on this, and it's coming through in the voting.

4. There are jerks here. Most people are absolutely wonderful, and that's why it's so difficult to believe that there are trolls that get their jollies out of lowballing people. But wherever you go in life, you'll find jerks. Imagine this was a company, with this many people -- of course you'll find a couple of bad apples. Don't let it ruin it for you. I expect a certain number of 1s and 2s in a challenge. Once you learn to expect it, it's not as much of a shock. It's still annoying, but easier to ignore.

If you want to give it another try, PM some of the people in this thread. Start asking questions, advice, comments. You've put a lot into this so far, and are a good addition. I'd recommend giving it another shot. :)
05/20/2011 08:05:55 PM · #16
Originally posted by RamblinR:

Putting things in perspective.

Just had a look at your profile
You have entered only 9 challenges
In the time you have been here the following are the number of comments both made and received

Comments:
Made: 27
Received: 59

Of the 27 comments you have made 11 of them are replies to comments you received.
You have only made 16 comments on other images.

Why would you complain about not receiving comments when you give out so few comments yourself?


I would be inclined to agree with this, and the previous mention of commenting more to learn things.
I really think that commenting helps a lot, and it is a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people expect lots of comments on their images but dish out none of their own.

I personally make it a point to comment more when I get frustrated about not getting enough comments. Somehow, it just makes me feel better, on its own. It also has the added benefit, that when I post in scores threads that I have commented on x% of images, others get motivated to...and I actually then end up getting more comments afterall.

What goes around...comes around

I mean, go if you must. But honestly, where else will you go? There is no better photo challenge site, and NO other sites give more comments than this one to everyone equally and based on image quality.
I used to frequent deviantart, and wouldn't get NEARLY as many comments, and so many of my submitted images got no comments. To give you an idea, my top scoring image here got all of 2(!!!) comments on that site, whereas it got over 20 here.
Sure, some people get tons of comments there, but they have to somehow become popular first, and the comments are always mindless "pretty" "aww" and garbage like that

Message edited by author 2011-05-20 20:35:27.
05/20/2011 08:08:02 PM · #17
Definitely give it another shot! Why don't you try asking people here if they'd take a look at your entries beforehand. It's so helpful to have someone take a look at your entries before you enter.

I think a lot of people do it (I certainly do!)
05/20/2011 08:29:11 PM · #18
I gather from the forums that you are in the 'Light on White' challenge.
I am entered in that challenge also and have only received 1 comment and my score is currently 5.6200
I didn't think it would be a top ten image so happy with the score.

I'm not voting on that challenge (prefer not to vote on challenges I'm in these days)
Let me know your image and I'll give you a critique (for what it's worth)

PM me with the details.

Message edited by author 2011-05-20 20:31:38.
05/20/2011 08:49:10 PM · #19
Ha....I've had comments, I've not had comments. I've had idiot comments and I've had great comments. I've been spat upon and praised. I have been accused of being the same person as 31.gif Rugman1969 and KICKED OFF for it...only to be proved innocent. Then suspended for "buddy voting" with Rugman...who was supposed to be ME !

I have a 7.2 image that did NOT win a ribbon and I've had a 3.52 image that did NOT win a ribbon.

I'm hated in the forums and someone has even said I "STALK" them. I have been asked to comment on photos and have been asked to NOT comment on someones photos (even when voting....huh?)

I've gotten two new members to join... 31.gif Rugman1969 and the new ribbon winner 21.gif SEG. (Can I get kicked of for getting Rugman to join?) I"m currently trying to get a new DSLR owner that I work with to join.

This site and the people have lots of problems....but so does society in general. The people on this site can pretty much answer anything you would ask....in any subject.

My membership is up in a few days....I'll likely sign back up.

As far as WINNING goes...SEG has been entering with a D70. Some of his shots are good and some stink. See this one for example...what was he thinking? Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_947450.jpg DEAD LAST.
Two entries later he won his first ribbon using his IPHONE....!

Oh well...go if you have to !
05/20/2011 09:07:14 PM · #20
Okay... Umm... I'm going to turn on my patented brutally honest meter here for a moment... and it may be somewhat offensive, so consider yourself warned. I will tell you however, that I hold myself to this same standard, and judge my images by this as well.

If no one commented on your image, then that is on you... not the commenters... Simply put, your image did not inspire anyone to comment, for better or worse. For the voters, its like going to a museum, and seeing a piece of art, and just moving on to the next piece, without saying a word to the person next to them. When my wife and I go to art shows or museums, when a piece really strikes us, we talk about it for awhile when viewing it. When we see an image that is uninspiring, or just plain blah, we simply move on... Voters are doing the same thing. Your image lacks the WOW factor, or even the "It inspired me to leave a comment" factor

Now having said that, here is the positive to not having any comments. There are no BRIGHT and SHINING flaws with your image. Usually, if you have an image with obvious flaws, such as over-sharpening, or a tilted horizon, you will receive comments telling you that. So... having said that... the fact that your image has no comments also tells you that your image is at least technically correct.

It took me roughly 3 years to get a ribbon, and I only have one. That ribbon image had one 1, 3 twos, and 4 threes... So you can't please everyone... Plus there are trolls and there are those that vote images they view as competition low as well. Its all part of the game, so expect it... I expect it with every image I submit, and that way, I'm never really disappointed when I get hit with a 1... The bottom line is that although this place can truly break your spirit, and believe me when I tell you that I understand that, when you start to see an improvement in your scores, and conversely, your photography, its all worth it... Did I just win the award for run-on sentence of the year??? Go me :)
05/20/2011 09:31:35 PM · #21
Scores mean far less than your experience.

Take the pictures you enjoy, the rest isn't all that important, you'll find an image that hits one of these days, and it'll probably be the one you least suspected!
05/20/2011 09:48:25 PM · #22
Participation at DPChallenge is a character building experience. It takes a level of self confidence and courage to post your images up against some very talented photographers. DPC challenges might be a great pathway to improving your photography. Or, you might not be ready.

My advice is two-fold:
1. Study the work of those photographers whom you admire... in subject, style and methodology. Figure out how they did what they did. Go to school on them. Emulate their degree of excellence and make it your own.
2. Find a mentor, or a circle of mentors. People at DPC are mostly good people, willing to offer advice and a helping hand up the ladder.

I learn something new and fresh at DPC every day. It's a good place.
05/20/2011 10:07:03 PM · #23
OK, my 2 cents...

I have only recently purchased my camera, have only two lenses, and no clue.

I have been here for a grand total of about 2 months. I sat around for the first part of that time just looking at the amazing images that were put up, reading forums, mucking about with my camera etc. People have (friends, family etc) told me that I 'take nice pictures' and I have had a little of the 'ooh, ahh, wow' response from them too.

I knew damn well when I entered my first challenge that I had (and still have) absolutely no idea what I'm doing, so did not, and do not, expect to even get a look in to the top HALF of the scored votes.

I am here to learn. Already, thanks to the challenges put up, I have captured images that I would not, under any other circumstance, have even thought of snapping a shot. Even when I am shooting for a challenge, I'm looking for other opportunities for beautiful pictures, and vice versa. One photo of cockatoos that I entered in a challenge was only able to be taken because I happened to be carrying my camera bag when I left my house one morning. I know this is 'noobie' stuff, but I previously would not have bothered to lay down flat on the ground just to attempt a particular point of view; crouching would have sufficed. I have taken more snaps in the last 2 months than I would have in two years otherwise.

I like getting comments too, and though I have not had any particularly nasty ones, I would more than likely burr up about them for a while then calm down and try to understand how I could improve next time.

I am trying to leave comments that are constructive, but I feel I'm not experienced enough to make these worthwhile. I'm also a bit tentative about leaving something negative, even if I feel it's constructive, because I don't really want to offend anyone that has obviously taken the time and effort to enter.

I loved the idea proposed earlier for 'Beginner's Challenges', but would still like to enter the 'Big People's Challenges' at the same time.

To end this ramble, I'm having a great deal of fun, taking LOTS of pictures and hopefully will learn something.... which is kinda the point, yes?
05/20/2011 10:15:23 PM · #24
Excellent responses by everyone, especially Simms. It is like graduating in the top of your high school class, then going to top-rated uni and getting failing grades (little fish in a big pond).

I am a relative newbie here (2 years in August), but I can understand your frustration with low scores and no comments. Looking at the winners (and the top 10 placers), I realize that i am totally outclassed in many respects. But after 74 challenges, I've been able to get a few honorable mentions... along with placing below 25% twice as recently as March 2011!

I think many others have said it well: The goal of this site should be to challenge yourself to try new things, to learn, and most of all to have fun! Just stick with it. And ask for critiques if you need an honest assessment... we are not your family and friends, so we can be honest and not worry about hurting your feelings ... {hope that came out ok ;-) }

Finally, is anyone going to leverage a win here to impress anybody. It is a great site with great people, but it's not like a win here is equal to getting your photo on the cover of NatGeo or Time magazine, right?

-mefnj

p.s. If you are looking for even more punishment, try getting images accepted to a stock photo site!

p.p.s. I just realized I gave your entry into Cool Colors II a vote of 8. It was an excellent idea and execution!

Message edited by author 2011-05-20 22:25:29.
05/20/2011 10:18:23 PM · #25
Ah, 21_F.gif pamb, that was lovely, especially the part about lying down on the ground instead of just crouching.
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