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05/10/2011 09:53:12 PM · #1
So, I've been really thinking about saving up for a medium format system. Ive been looking at the H4D-40 since its "reasonable" in comparison and delivers the quality.

Hasselblad has the quality with the lenses and the AF system and also some other things like the battery is not on the bottom of the digital back like on a Mamiya system.

However, there is one problem and its a deal breaker. The fastest shutter speed on the body is 1/800th of a second. WTF! I can understand it if you never go outside of the studio, but I would like to do some on-location shots and not have to use an f-stop of 16 or more.

At least the Mamiya goes to around 1/4000th of a second I believe.

Any thoughts on this.
05/10/2011 10:06:37 PM · #2
If it's the wide apertures you're going for you could just use a good old grey/ND filter..maybe even a filter system like the cokin?

if it's the fast shutter speed you are after because you want to do sports photography with a camera like that, well than may whatever supernatural power you believe in help you in whatever you're planning to achieve! ;)
05/10/2011 10:11:04 PM · #3
My Mamiya RB 67 lenses do not top 1/400th of a second. I use ND filters if needed.
05/10/2011 10:12:21 PM · #4
I dont know why you would use a medium format camera for sports.

I suppose the only solution is to use ND filters.
I just wish I didn't have to, why can't I have it to 1/2000th. then I would be happy

05/10/2011 10:14:50 PM · #5
Avoid strong light situations. The ND will get the job done.
05/10/2011 10:18:24 PM · #6
well, the long exposures wont be an issue, max of 256 seconds. Those long exposures of piers and waves wont be an issue :)
05/10/2011 10:33:23 PM · #7
Originally posted by mgarsteck:

... why can't I have it to 1/2000th. ...


Physics. :)

Well, in this case it's actually economics which are driven by the physics...

The problem is that you've got a relatively large shutter that you're attempting to make travel a relatively large distance, this creates a constraint that is, at some point, simply going to be a limiting factor in max shutter speed.
05/10/2011 10:37:09 PM · #8
why does the Mamiya 645 system have a ss of 1/4000th?
05/10/2011 10:41:39 PM · #9
Originally posted by mgarsteck:

why does the Mamiya 645 system have a ss of 1/4000th?


Knowing nearly nothing about different MF systems, my guess is that it's either a newer system, or a better engineered system... Hence the statement "it's actually economics driven by the physics".

Basically it's the same reason a Ford Tarus can do 105mph, while a $500,000 supercar can do 250mph+... Throw enough engineering / money at a problem and the limits can be pushed.

ETA: It could, alternatively, be related to durability, since you could, in theory, trade longevity for speed.

Message edited by author 2011-05-10 22:43:10.
05/10/2011 10:49:31 PM · #10
I knew that its a better shutter system, thats kind of obvious. 1/4000th is better than 1/800th.

05/12/2011 08:45:31 PM · #11
Originally posted by mgarsteck:

why does the Mamiya 645 system have a ss of 1/4000th?


Because it has a focal plane shutter. The Hasselblad only supports leaf shutters in the lenses, which are slower (though they have their own advantages, like your sync speed is as high as your shutter speed). There are other perks too (and giant focal plane shutters suffer cons, as well).
The Mamiya has a focal plane shutter and also supports leaf shutters in lenses, but it is the focal plane shutter that allows the higher shutter speed.

Message edited by author 2011-05-12 20:46:09.
05/12/2011 09:23:28 PM · #12
Right on, thats what I was wondering... I still want the camera, now if I only had 20k to drop on it...
05/12/2011 09:30:48 PM · #13
Originally posted by mgarsteck:

Right on, thats what I was wondering... I still want the camera, now if I only had 20k to drop on it...


Hope your piggy bank is big :)
Time to start penny pinching.
05/12/2011 09:50:07 PM · #14
Yeah, Im thinking its a terrible idea since Im not making enough money with photography to justify it...
05/13/2011 06:06:00 AM · #15
/me waits for 21.gif mak to chime in with his Pentax 645D experience.

It's a better featured body at a more affordable price and some excellent primes available.

bazz.
05/13/2011 11:27:03 AM · #16
Originally posted by sir_bazz:

/me waits for 21.gif mak to chime in with his Pentax 645D experience.

It's a better featured body at a more affordable price and some excellent primes available.

bazz.


Only just got mine mate but to be honest it's a big step in the right direction for me. I was turning into a 'snapper' without any care or thought about a shot and then ending up with a card full of dung that I sometimes managed to salvage a shot or 2 using photoshop..

The MF system, for me, has given me the chance to think more about light, composition, BEFORE I hit the button. It was always too easy with the 1Ds to rattle off 100 shots a minute but the Pentax demands respect! Shooting medium format will give me the depth, tone and clarity that I yearn for without photoshop. I am still getting used to the beast but already (even with my first entry sitting at 5.5) delighted with how it behaves outside and in the studio. I find it wonderful to still get milky smooth bokeh even at f8-f11 so now using my strobes is a delight rather than a PITA. The romance has been put back into 'Taking a Picture' rather than hammering out an array of snaps. For me, the difference is that.

Obviously the IQ is a lot better, the ISO performance, for a MF camera is excellent. It has a few bells & whistles on it that the old film guys (Ken Rockwell) hate, but I think that coming from a DSLR you will find some of the functions very handy..

The files are big and heavy and can take some bending around in Lightroom/Photoshop if you so desire it. The glory is nailing the shot direct from camera. I always struggled to get a camera to capture WHAT I WAS SEEING! without a ton of PS and in my early years here (as some will recall) I usually went totally overboard and trashed the hell out of an image. A lot of this was down to frustration tbh.

Example -: This is direct from camera, only cropped/resized in lightroom, shot at f4.5 (wide open) I was gonna wedge it in the flowers challenge but thought it was a bit cheeky. It's a snapshot outside a cafe, yet, to me, it is already a finished photo, it looks as wonderful in B&W as it does in colour. I am mostly a portrait tog and this camera is AWESOME in the studio.

Downsides is that lenses are quite expensive (I guess they all are) but some older A series manual focus are available and some Pentacon6 with adapters work great too.
The shutter life is 50k
it's bloody heavy to lug around (a wife is good for this)

Upsides are the IQ is staggering, battery life is excellent, it's weatherproof, it demands respect and I needed that.

Any questions mate just shoot me a PM over.

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_951286.jpg
05/13/2011 11:27:33 AM · #17
Bear used to have a Hasselblad AND an RB67, but that w as back in the stone ages and he can hardly remember using them. He DOES remember how much fun it was keeping his assistant busy unloading and reloading the backs as he burned through the film lickety-split. He especially remembers the assistant who was stowing the exposed film in his vest pocket, and who fell off the dock into the bay. Fortunately not with the camera in his clumsy paws, but the film was a loss... Not that this has anything to do with medium format, LOL. Except you can't put 4x5 film holders in a pocket very easily.

R, reminiscently from sunny California, where it actually happened, eons ago. Are you reading this, Jim?
05/13/2011 11:41:41 AM · #18
Man, get a little California in him and he starts referring to himself in the third person...
05/13/2011 12:27:17 PM · #19
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Bear used to have a Hasselblad AND an RB67, but that w as back in the stone ages and he can hardly remember using them. He DOES remember how much fun it was keeping his assistant busy unloading and reloading the backs as he burned through the film lickety-split. He especially remembers the assistant who was stowing the exposed film in his vest pocket, and who fell off the dock into the bay. Fortunately not with the camera in his clumsy paws, but the film was a loss... Not that this has anything to do with medium format, LOL. Except you can't put 4x5 film holders in a pocket very easily.

R, reminiscently from sunny California, where it actually happened, eons ago. Are you reading this, Jim?


Was I your assistant?

No, wait...

I dropped the RB67 into the water, saving the film and it wasn't the ocean, it was the spent fuel storage pool at a nuke plant. Doh!
05/17/2011 09:38:06 PM · #20
do you have any random shots from the Pentax to show in your portfolio? It might be a reasonable camera to buy...
05/17/2011 11:22:24 PM · #21
I just picked up a Mamiya M645 Super, with 45, 80, and a 105-210 zoom, lenses. Also has the AE Prism finder. I haven't put any film through it yet, but the weekend is coming. Waiting on an auto winder I ordered to show up now.
05/18/2011 06:01:04 AM · #22
Originally posted by mgarsteck:

It might be a reasonable camera to buy...


Well, I think so.

As for random shots, I don't really use it for random shooting I prefer to use my 60D for such things.
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