| Author | Thread |
|
|
07/28/2010 05:02:33 PM · #76 |
I couldn't find in this thread what SOTC refers to, so I googled it.
SOTC Shadow of the Colossus (video game)
SOTC Spirit of the Century (roleplaying game)
SOTC Southern Oklahoma Technology Center
SOTC State of the Cryosphere (overview of the status of snow and ice as indicators of climate change)
SOTC Sale of the Century (TV show)
SoTC Seal of the Crusader (gaming, World of Warcraft)
SOTC Soul of the Cave (alternative rock band)
SOTC Soldiers of the Cross (Danville, VA)
SOTC Syracuse Obedience Training Club
SOTC Sex Outside the City (San Francisco area swinger club)
SOTC Sons of the Cloth (band)
SOTC Slightly Off Topic Comment
SOTC Sign of the Chrysanthemum (book)
SOTC Stream-Oriented Turbo Code
I'm going with Syracuse Obedience Training Club.
That's what we need, a Syracuse Obedience Training Club challenge, Basic editing, of course. ;-) |
|
|
|
07/28/2010 05:06:47 PM · #77 |
| SOTC = Straight Out of The Camera. (Guessing) |
|
|
|
07/28/2010 05:25:33 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
SOTC = Straight Out of The Camera. (Guessing) |
Perhaps I've been remiss, but that's the usage I was going for :) |
|
|
|
07/28/2010 05:35:53 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
SOTC = Straight Out of The Camera. (Guessing) |
Perhaps I've been remiss, but that's the usage I was going for :) |
Dang, Syracuse Obedience Training Club had such promise.
Message edited by author 2010-07-28 17:36:10. |
|
|
|
07/28/2010 05:56:31 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by Tammster:
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by mike_311:
i was playing around with topaz trial last night, and i'm still not sure how its allowed in basic editing.
doesn't it in a way apply an effect filter to the picture? and effect filters are not allowed. |
I would disallow it in Basic. I've always thought it was ridiculous to allow it. It changes an image way too much for it to be seen as an entry in a basic editing challenge.
Let's have a vote on it Langdon. (as if he reads these forums) lol |
The funny thing is, I was very happy when Topaz was allowed in basic because it gave me more options and I really enjoy what Topaz can do to many photos. However, in an academic argument, it doesn't seem like it SHOULD be allowed in basic. I really think it affects a picture much more than a little dodging or burning or selective editing does. |
Precisely. I can't clone out a stray hair that I missed in studio but I can completely overhaul an image with Topaz and make it look cartoony and exaggerate the edges, etc etc. I say again, ridiculous. |
|
|
|
07/28/2010 06:03:28 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Originally posted by CreativeFlyPhoto:
i always chuckle when i see posts like this ... for the most part, all my entries are entered with basic editing :) |
Most of my advanced rules entries would pass under basic rules too. But there are a bunch of scenes I would love to shoot, but only if I can do a tiny amount of localized exposure/sharpening and maybe clone out a few power lines and other distractions. I would rather wait do do these scenes when they fit an advanced topic than squander them in basic rules. I can't be the only one- basic rules are hindering participation.
I am convinced there are too many pigeon shots though, lol! |
I too use basic editing as I dont have any of the high power editing programmes many others use , just paint. net so I am happy with that . Many of the shots in many challenges ARE OVER PROCESSED imo.
|
|
|
|
07/28/2010 06:07:25 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by kiwinick:
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Originally posted by CreativeFlyPhoto:
i always chuckle when i see posts like this ... for the most part, all my entries are entered with basic editing :) |
Most of my advanced rules entries would pass under basic rules too. But there are a bunch of scenes I would love to shoot, but only if I can do a tiny amount of localized exposure/sharpening and maybe clone out a few power lines and other distractions. I would rather wait do do these scenes when they fit an advanced topic than squander them in basic rules. I can't be the only one- basic rules are hindering participation.
I am convinced there are too many pigeon shots though, lol! |
I too use basic editing as I dont have any of the high power editing programmes many others use , just paint. net so I am happy with that . Many of the shots in many challenges ARE OVER PROCESSED imo. |
You can pay $25 for a year membership to Picnik.com and it will let you do a surprising selection of edits, including selective cloning, dodging & burning, curves & levels. Plus a lot of other fun things that are not legal in most challenges. |
|
|
|
07/28/2010 07:36:11 PM · #83 |
Hey hey hey hey!
I created a potato out of a face, within basic editing rules. And gave DPC the closest score to PI this season.
Some respect here;-)
 |
|
|
|
07/28/2010 07:55:16 PM · #84 |
| Just my two cents, but IMHO when you take a picture and alter it it becomes graphic design, stepping away from photography. Granted, photography is in the category of graphic art, but it is a very specific to being an image captured by a camera. Period. I agree that composition is the number one factor of photography, followed by technical competence (proper focus, etc.) It irks me to see that things in basic challenges have had obvious PP and aren't disqualified, but then again I've only been upper 50% once :) Maybe I'm just bitter, but I agree that basic needs to be more basic and that advanced and so forth are just fine. For the graphic designers. Who are in it for the money. What the heck, I just realized that we're all full of it because there is no good definition of art in the first place! Let there be basic, though. Just more so. |
|
|
|
07/28/2010 08:13:55 PM · #85 |
Here's another 2ยข
A good photographer in the digital age must work under all sorts of constraints. The four Challenge rule sets in effect at DPC would seem to be, if nothing else, good discipline in working in unusual or difficult situations.
My only suggestion would be (if you're numbering them, make this #4) more practice in "straight out of the camera." It certainly is the most difficult.
|
|
|
|
07/28/2010 08:17:19 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by dali_lama_2k:
Just my two cents, but IMHO when you take a picture and alter it it becomes graphic design, ... |
Then all great photographers were just graphic designers. Ansel Adams Graphic Designer!
To my point dodge and burn, air brushing, cutting in negatives and color slide film manipulation in the darkroom of old is now done in Photoshop. |
|
|
|
07/28/2010 08:47:45 PM · #87 |
|
|
|
07/28/2010 09:38:08 PM · #88 |
|
|
|
07/29/2010 12:31:02 AM · #89 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Erick!! Hi!!! :-) |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Hi Deb!
:-) |
Hi to both of you! Since the threads seem to be full of the same debates as when I joined DPC 4 years ago, it seems appropriate that I find you two goofing around. :)
Ahem, back on topic ...
I've gone through an evolution on this point. I used to spend hours buried in multiple PS layers to make a shot perfect.
Now I find that a few swipes on a few sliders in iPhoto and I'm really happy with most of my photos. Every once in a while I climb back into PS, but not most of the time.
So I support keeping Basic rules. Not necessarily 2/3 of the weekly challenges, but as a class of challenge. |
|
|
|
07/29/2010 08:09:01 AM · #90 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Now I find that a few swipes on a few sliders in iPhoto and I'm really happy with most of my photos. Every once in a while I climb back into PS, but not most of the time.
So I support keeping Basic rules. Not necessarily 2/3 of the weekly challenges, but as a class of challenge. |
If you're happy with that level of editing (as many others in this thread have indicated), nothing would stop you from doing the same exact thing in advanced editing. Basic editing challenges limit more advanced editing but advanced editing challenges don't limit more basic editing. So if basic editing is "retired", seems to me everyone would be happy (especially if they have one challenge per week that is SOTC for the purists out there and expert editing every once in a while for the graphic artists). |
|
|
|
07/29/2010 10:49:07 AM · #91 |
Originally posted by Tammster:
Originally posted by levyj413:
Now I find that a few swipes on a few sliders in iPhoto and I'm really happy with most of my photos. Every once in a while I climb back into PS, but not most of the time.
So I support keeping Basic rules. Not necessarily 2/3 of the weekly challenges, but as a class of challenge. |
If you're happy with that level of editing (as many others in this thread have indicated), nothing would stop you from doing the same exact thing in advanced editing. Basic editing challenges limit more advanced editing but advanced editing challenges don't limit more basic editing. So if basic editing is "retired", seems to me everyone would be happy (especially if they have one challenge per week that is SOTC for the purists out there and expert editing every once in a while for the graphic artists). |
No. There is a reason that NASCAR vehicles do not compete in the Formula 1 series. |
|
|
|
07/29/2010 01:16:52 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Tammster:
Originally posted by levyj413:
Now I find that a few swipes on a few sliders in iPhoto and I'm really happy with most of my photos. Every once in a while I climb back into PS, but not most of the time.
So I support keeping Basic rules. Not necessarily 2/3 of the weekly challenges, but as a class of challenge. |
If you're happy with that level of editing (as many others in this thread have indicated), nothing would stop you from doing the same exact thing in advanced editing. Basic editing challenges limit more advanced editing but advanced editing challenges don't limit more basic editing. So if basic editing is "retired", seems to me everyone would be happy (especially if they have one challenge per week that is SOTC for the purists out there and expert editing every once in a while for the graphic artists). |
No. There is a reason that NASCAR vehicles do not compete in the Formula 1 series. |
Of course... but this is not racing, and while I usually like such comparisons, this is not a good one.
If someone is absolutely thrilled with their basic edit, why not compete in advanced? If they think their picture is exactly what they want it shouldn't matter what other photo they're competing against. Most people here on this thread seem to want basic rules because they are pleased with their results under basic... and they would be allowed to submit that same great shot in an advanced rules challenge. |
|
|
|
07/29/2010 01:37:19 PM · #93 |
soapbox
I'm of the opinion that it isn't necessarily basic or advanced editing that makes the shot wonderful. Personally, I think editing is a natural part of this medium, and see no problems with that. I accept that it has always been such. But at the same time, I don't think there is any direct correlation between means and ends.I think many are either ignoring or oblivious to the fact that what ultimately makes a good shot, be it basic, advanced, minimal or expert, is the vision. You have to think "I will take this photo, and I know I will do this and that to accentuate and perfect it." Great photos aren't the steps, it's knowing which steps to take when.
Sure, you can randomly screw with a photo, and turn out one good for every 50 turd shots. But I'm talking how individuals turn out concerted efforts, and consistently good products.
I like basic, if not for anything but the fact that it is less daunting for many. This is especially true for those who are yet to have any real understanding of the editing process, and whose playground is outright editing experimentation. How can one develop vision, and foresight, without confidence in the means? If I assumed that all quality photos required immense amounts of crazy difficult editing, it would seem very, very daunting, and hopeless, to boot. But really, so long as there is no mention of the organic process that exists between seeing a scene, understanding what it can/will grow into, and then editing it to accomplish such and so long as we continue to pretend that a shot is either all one or the other, there will be no real progress made.
/soapbox. |
|
|
|
07/29/2010 01:41:47 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
soapbox
I'm of the opinion that it isn't necessarily basic or advanced editing that makes the shot wonderful. Personally, I think editing is a natural part of this medium, and see no problems with that. I accept that it has always been such. But at the same time, I don't think there is any direct correlation between means and ends.I think many are either ignoring or oblivious to the fact that what ultimately makes a good shot, be it basic, advanced, minimal or expert, is the vision. You have to think "I will take this photo, and I know I will do this and that to accentuate and perfect it." Great photos aren't the steps, it's knowing which steps to take when.
Sure, you can randomly screw with a photo, and turn out one good for every 50 turd shots. But I'm talking how individuals turn out concerted efforts, and consistently good products.
I like basic, if not for anything but the fact that it is less daunting for many. This is especially true for those who are yet to have any real understanding of the editing process, and whose playground is outright editing experimentation. How can one develop vision, and foresight, without confidence in the means? If I assumed that all quality photos required immense amounts of crazy difficult editing, it would seem very, very daunting, and hopeless, to boot. But really, so long as there is no mention of the organic process that exists between seeing a scene, understanding what it can/will grow into, and then editing it to accomplish such and so long as we continue to pretend that a shot is either all one or the other, there will be no real progress made.
/soapbox. |
Hear, hear.
Well said.. (next time I would like to be able to say well spaced too ;) )... |
|
|
|
07/29/2010 01:56:12 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by Tammster:
If someone is absolutely thrilled with their basic edit, why not compete in advanced? If they think their picture is exactly what they want it shouldn't matter what other photo they're competing against. Most people here on this thread seem to want basic rules because they are pleased with their results under basic... and they would be allowed to submit that same great shot in an advanced rules challenge. |
I agree that there is no problem with self-imposing the basic rule-set on yourself. In fact, almost every one of my Advanced entries would have been legal in Basic as well.
But, I think you're missing the point of this website: to learn. I have had a number of entries in basic in which I wished the Advanced rules were in place to help out. However, Because it was Basic, I HAD to be creative, and find new ways to make my photo as good as possible. Therefore, I was forced to learn new techniques, and the mission of the site was accomplished. |
|
|
|
07/29/2010 02:08:02 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by giantmike:
Originally posted by Tammster:
If someone is absolutely thrilled with their basic edit, why not compete in advanced? If they think their picture is exactly what they want it shouldn't matter what other photo they're competing against. Most people here on this thread seem to want basic rules because they are pleased with their results under basic... and they would be allowed to submit that same great shot in an advanced rules challenge. |
I agree that there is no problem with self-imposing the basic rule-set on yourself. In fact, almost every one of my Advanced entries would have been legal in Basic as well.
But, I think you're missing the point of this website: to learn. I have had a number of entries in basic in which I wished the Advanced rules were in place to help out. However, Because it was Basic, I HAD to be creative, and find new ways to make my photo as good as possible. Therefore, I was forced to learn new techniques, and the mission of the site was accomplished. |
I have had this happen... but I learn more and useful techniques when I can play around in advanced. In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques. I can learn the easiest and/or most effective way to do something to make my picture look as good as it possibly can (which is my goal)... not just as good as I am allowed to in basic. |
|
|
|
07/29/2010 04:16:06 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by Tammster:
I have had this happen... but I learn more and useful techniques when I can play around in advanced. In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques. I can learn the easiest and/or most effective way to do something to make my picture look as good as it possibly can (which is my goal)... not just as good as I am allowed to in basic. |
Actually, you learn more when you're forced to push yourself. I had to laugh when you said that you don't have to learn workaround techniques in the real world.
Where on earth might THAT be????? LOL!!! LIFE is a contstant succession of workarounds. At least in the world where I live, you never get to do it exactly the way you want so it comes out perfectly.
|
|
|
|
07/29/2010 04:23:38 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Tammster:
I have had this happen... but I learn more and useful techniques when I can play around in advanced. In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques. I can learn the easiest and/or most effective way to do something to make my picture look as good as it possibly can (which is my goal)... not just as good as I am allowed to in basic. |
Actually, you learn more when you're forced to push yourself. I had to laugh when you said that you don't have to learn workaround techniques in the real world.
Where on earth might THAT be????? LOL!!! LIFE is a contstant succession of workarounds. At least in the world where I live, you never get to do it exactly the way you want so it comes out perfectly. |
Funny...
Photoshop is so amazingly complex that I feel plenty challenged learning everything it has to offer and to me, the sky's the limit. I want to learn every possible thing and imposing restrictions (in photoshop) that I will truly never need to impose on myself is not beneficial to me.
So, I will rephrase the sentence that does seem silly on its own: "In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques IN PHOTOSHOP." I have the full $800+ software to learn and I bet I'm not even 10% there. |
|
|
|
07/29/2010 04:28:12 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by Tammster:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Tammster:
I have had this happen... but I learn more and useful techniques when I can play around in advanced. In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques. I can learn the easiest and/or most effective way to do something to make my picture look as good as it possibly can (which is my goal)... not just as good as I am allowed to in basic. |
Actually, you learn more when you're forced to push yourself. I had to laugh when you said that you don't have to learn workaround techniques in the real world.
Where on earth might THAT be????? LOL!!! LIFE is a contstant succession of workarounds. At least in the world where I live, you never get to do it exactly the way you want so it comes out perfectly. |
Funny...
Photoshop is so amazingly complex that I feel plenty challenged learning everything it has to offer and to me, the sky's the limit. I want to learn every possible thing and imposing restrictions (in photoshop) that I will truly never need to impose on myself is not beneficial to me.
So, I will rephrase the sentence that does seem silly on its own: "In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques IN PHOTOSHOP." I have the full $800+ software to learn and I bet I'm not even 10% there. |
One thing that should be obvious is that there is a significant difference in time required to do global edits and spot edits... Advanced is focused on spot editing, and you can bet I spend quite a bit more time on those entries.. In the end, it's just amusing that there's one thread on here screaming for diversity, and another wanting to reduce diversity..
|
|
|
|
07/29/2010 04:38:56 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by Tammster:
Photoshop is so amazingly complex that I feel plenty challenged learning everything it has to offer and to me, the sky's the limit. I want to learn every possible thing and imposing restrictions (in photoshop) that I will truly never need to impose on myself is not beneficial to me.
So, I will rephrase the sentence that does seem silly on its own: "In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques IN PHOTOSHOP." I have the full $800+ software to learn and I bet I'm not even 10% there. |
I've actually been using Elements 7 now, not so much my CS2. It's easier, and I'm not so much finding myself missing all the extras.
I've not been one to go out of my way to learn how to fix things after the fact when I feel that what makes me really excited about photography is getting the image as good as is humanly possible before I ever get it into PS. I'll never be a PP guru.......I'd rather spend my time out walking my camera, and learning how to do my best out there.
Personally, full blown CS is incredibly daunting to me, and I really don't want to invest that much time to get to know it intimately.
I guess I've just got a different view on the subject.
|
|
