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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Maybe it's time to retire Basic Rules permanently?
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07/26/2010 11:58:14 PM · #1
Okay, so I haven't entered a challenge since DPL wrapped up. And I was sitting home just now at sunset and thought I could go get a shot for the "Industrial" challenge. Then I realized it was a "Basic Rules" challenge- no thanks. It's not like I want to do anything heavy with my image (I never do), just a little localized exposure is all I wanted for the shot I had in mind. And I don't feel like shooting something only to not be able to show it at it's best.

I can totally understand there was a need for Basic Rules in years past. But I see them as only making galleries lackluster for no good reason at this point. These days there are a multitude of great tutorials online that can teach a beginner most anything they need to know about processing- and for free too. Why can't DPC just link to some of these tutorials to get beginners up to speed rather than hamper everyone with basic rules now that they are available? Over the couple of years I have been at DPC I have probably passed on at least thirty challenges because the shot I wanted to do could not be rendered as well as I would like under basic rules. And I expect others are similar to me in that they would participate more without the limitations.

I really welcome beginners to the site and am probably not much more than one myself. But I truly think enabling them with links to processing tutorials under one universal rule set for all challenges that isn't so restrictive as basic is fitting for present day. Let's lay basic rules to rest as they serve no good to anyone anymore as far as I can see. I'm certainly willing to hear arguments to keep them, but can't imagine any further need for them.
07/27/2010 12:00:26 AM · #2
Hell, and here I've been advocating for a "straight from the camera" challenge (minimum editing..)..

I like the more restrictive rules as they force me to learn neat tricks that work with global (fast) adjustments.
07/27/2010 12:03:30 AM · #3
we need mode challenges that require expert editing, and more challenges that require straight form the camera. Right now all our challenges are in-between.

If it was up to me, there would be two sets of rules "editing", and "minimal-editing". editing would allow you to do almost anything to the photo except add new image area, add clip art, or distort the pictures. On the other hand, minimal editing would be crop, brightness/contrast, and maybe USM. This way it would be more straight forward.
07/27/2010 12:10:28 AM · #4
I think we need fewer pigeon pictures. Just too damn many of those, regardless of the editing.
07/27/2010 12:14:03 AM · #5
Originally posted by Melethia:

I think we need fewer pigeon pictures. Just too damn many of those, regardless of the editing.


I say more squab!
07/27/2010 12:17:56 AM · #6
Originally posted by Melethia:

I think we need fewer pigeon pictures. Just too damn many of those, regardless of the editing.

You lie poorly.

More llamas, please. And pigeons. Twin challenges for the Wednesday rollover.
07/27/2010 12:23:40 AM · #7
Pigeons score poorly. Except for pigeon challenges, then only MY pigeon scores poorly.

More aardvarks. When was the last time we had a decent aardvark?
07/27/2010 12:26:19 AM · #8
i always chuckle when i see posts like this ... for the most part, all my entries are entered with basic editing :)
07/27/2010 12:34:08 AM · #9
Originally posted by CreativeFlyPhoto:

i always chuckle when i see posts like this ... for the most part, all my entries are entered with basic editing :)


Most of my advanced rules entries would pass under basic rules too. But there are a bunch of scenes I would love to shoot, but only if I can do a tiny amount of localized exposure/sharpening and maybe clone out a few power lines and other distractions. I would rather wait do do these scenes when they fit an advanced topic than squander them in basic rules. I can't be the only one- basic rules are hindering participation.

I am convinced there are too many pigeon shots though, lol!
07/27/2010 12:35:34 AM · #10
Originally posted by Brent_S:

Originally posted by CreativeFlyPhoto:

i always chuckle when i see posts like this ... for the most part, all my entries are entered with basic editing :)


Most of my advanced rules entries would pass under basic rules too. But there are a bunch of scenes I would love to shoot, but only if I can do a tiny amount of localized exposure/sharpening and maybe clone out a few power lines and other distractions. I would rather wait do do these scenes when they fit an advanced topic than squander them in basic rules. I can't be the only one- basic rules are hindering participation.

I am convinced there are too many pigeon shots though, lol!


Why not use the same scene for both... After all, sometimes a location will score much better after it becomes familiar..
07/27/2010 01:16:16 AM · #11
Sorry Brent, I totally disagree. I think basic editing requires a completely different skill set than advanced editing, which can fix even a mediocre shot. Basic requires that the photograph be great to begin with. I continue to enter basic challenges because it forces me to be better compositionally, technically, artistically. It also makes me look at things differently. Don't get me wrong, I love playing around with editing because it sometimes brings out stuff in my pictures that I didn't know was there. But I definitely think there is always a place for basic.

What we REALLY need to get rid of are water drop shots.
07/27/2010 01:16:22 AM · #12
sorry. I somehow posted a duplicate.

I think we should definitely get rid of duplicates....

Message edited by author 2010-07-27 01:16:58.
07/27/2010 07:19:55 AM · #13
More Spam
07/27/2010 07:30:00 AM · #14
I totally agree that basic editing needs to die. Advanced editing is already restrictive considering the tools available to us today. Lets move with the times people! I too avoid basic editing if i can. If basic editing is to live on, can we at least see LESS challenges in basic?
07/27/2010 07:43:32 AM · #15
Actually I think that what we really need is more trolls. If the trolls were in the challenges, there might be less trolls scoring the challenges.

This would be very simple to institute - just add the word 'troll' to the end of every challenge (except FS, where low scores are mandatory!)

So... Shallow DOF Troll VI
Potato Troll
Summertime meal Troll XV

etc.

I can't believe that no-one has thought of this before. I am going troll hunting so that I am ready for when these new challenges start to appear.
07/27/2010 07:45:55 AM · #16
Originally posted by FrankRobinson:

Actually I think that what we really need is more trolls. If the trolls were in the challenges, there might be less trolls scoring the challenges.

This would be very simple to institute - just add the word 'troll' to the end of every challenge (except FS, where low scores are mandatory!)

So... Shallow DOF Troll VI
Potato Troll
Summertime meal Troll XV

etc.

I can't believe that no-one has thought of this before. I am going troll hunting so that I am ready for when these new challenges start to appear.


if we do those challenges the lowest score should win.
07/27/2010 11:15:27 AM · #17
I totally disagree with the original post. Totally!!!

Learning photography DOES NOT include learning Photoshop or any other graphics app.

07/27/2010 11:25:09 AM · #18
Originally posted by Jac:

I totally disagree with the original post. Totally!!!

Learning photography DOES NOT include learning Photoshop or any other graphics app.


I disagree with your disagreement. It has it's place and those who make money with it in the real world will use the tools that produce what sells.

As much as I like the extra flexibility and choices that I have with advanced editing, basic editing makes me concentrate on improving my skills at the camera end of the equation. I like the current mix of both.
07/27/2010 11:27:45 AM · #19
Originally posted by Jac:

I totally disagree with the original post. Totally!!!

Learning photography DOES NOT include learning Photoshop or any other graphics app.


So a photographer in days gone by (ie before digital) would sit there with his negatives and wait for them to magically turn to print?
07/27/2010 11:29:05 AM · #20
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by Jac:

I totally disagree with the original post. Totally!!!

Learning photography DOES NOT include learning Photoshop or any other graphics app.


I disagree with your disagreement. It has it's place and those who make money with it in the real world will use the tools that produce what sells.

As much as I like the extra flexibility and choices that I have with advanced editing, basic editing makes me concentrate on improving my skills at the camera end of the equation. I like the current mix of both.


as a newcomer to the site so do I, but I think basic needs to be a little more restricted.

in basic editing, your final picture shouldn't look like its been run through post processing.
07/27/2010 11:35:32 AM · #21
Originally posted by mike_311:

as a newcomer to the site so do I, but I think basic needs to be a little more restricted.

in basic editing, your final picture shouldn't look like its been run through post processing.

The only problem with that is it is a very subjective call to make. Where do you draw the line on what "looks post-processed"?
07/27/2010 11:37:09 AM · #22
This is obviously a touchy subject, since there are so many passionate opinions about it.

Anyway, I for one disagree that processing and photography should be considered as absolutely separated things. In the end, a photo you take has to be viewed by people, which implies some kind of processing... even printing is some kind of processing! One can choose some kind of ink for nice deep blacks, some kind of paper for brightness, etc.

Here on DPC photos are mostly viewed on computer screens, which should be taken into account imo, in order to choose a suitable contrast level, sharpen edges depending on the chosen resolution, etc. In a way, I don't understand people that would like a "straight out of the camera" challenge. The raw material is *always* processed in some way! Even "old-fashioned" photos on films have to be bathed in various chemicals, which affect the rendering of the final image.

However, that said, I also agree that a good photo is already good without much processing. Subject, framing, light, etc. are absolutely capital. But it is often (if not always) possible to even enhance it with some sort of processing, like Brent said (minor cloning would be one way to do so in some cases, or subtle dodge/burning in some others, etc.) And it can be very frustrating to NOT do that little enhancement, due to some sort of rule, even though you perfectly know how to do it. So I also understand people not willing to comply with these rules, I think it is a completely respectable choice. Look at websites like 1x.com, most people would agree in saying that the photos here are quite good... well most of them (all?) are processed to some extend.
07/27/2010 11:39:42 AM · #23
I personally think that basic should be more restricted, advanced should be a tad more opened, and there should also be a lot more "minimal" and "expert" as well. LOL
07/27/2010 12:11:06 PM · #24
Maybe there just needs to be a sister site - DEChallenge for Digital Editing Challenge... For those who want to edit more... it is photo challenge after all not illustration challenge...
07/27/2010 12:11:50 PM · #25
More advanced nudity and less basic modesty ;-P

Call for a vote off, I am sure Basic is here to stay and it should!
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