Lutchenko and Kingskingdom start up new website

02/24/2010 04:46:50 PM · #1

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

I gotta side with Karmat and Skip on the stock shots. It is one thing to use stock wedding photos on your Services page or other informational pages, but putting them in your Portfolio is inherently misleading whether you "have no intention of misleading" or not. I build commercial websites and use stock photos all over the place, but never in a way that would or could mislead someone into mistaking the image or what is in the image as their work if it was not. I had a landscaper who had crappy portfolio pics for his site and I wanted to enhance the quality by at least adding stock photos to his services page and he was not comfortable with even that because he thought it was misleading.

Here's a suggestion, just go out and setup a couple wedding shoots with models in a TFP arrangement or something and post those or wait until you get a wedding done and post some of those - your website (with it's potential lack of wedding photos) surely cannot be your only source of leads / sales.

Other than that, I didn't crawl all over the site, but what I saw looked good. ...especially those wedding shots. :P
Actually, why is there a Gallery and a Portfolio? I'd consolidate. And I would try to elminate the scroll bar in the middle of that page/frame.

Anyway, good luck with your venture.

Thanks for your input Ken.
We did a wedding dress TFP shoot but it ended up looking just like a model in wedding dress as it needed a lot more prep than the model was prepared to do.
You are right in thinking that the website is not our only source of leads in fact in terms of % of leads it's amost insignificant.

Message edited by author 2010-02-24 16:57:20.

02/24/2010 04:45:22 PM · #2

Originally posted by JH:

Originally posted by JH:
Some initial proof-reading;

'Children' page
spelling pesonality / personality

'Portraits' page
sp favorite / favourite (british spelling for british audience!)
sp vist / visit
sp contemporay / contemporary
grammar: 'wide variety albums'/ 'wide variety of albums'

'Weddings' page
sp immagery / imagery
sp equisite exquisite
sp favorite / favourite

'Portfolios' page
sp favorite / favourite (you like that word!)

Bumping typos.

Many thanks for the input.... I'll buy Chris a dictionary I think lol

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

02/24/2010 04:44:40 PM · #3

Originally posted by Simms:

Guys, gonna be straight here. It kind of bothers me that you are using stock imagery to sell yourselves. Shooting a wedding isn't all about the images you can take - shooting a wedding requires a far greater skill-set than being able to shoot pretty pictures (although, that does help immensely)..

If you want a brief background to how I got started shooting wedding I will happily post it here. But the thing is you need to show off the images that YOU have taken - now I know its a catch-22 because you cant show them off as you haven`t shot any weddings however you cannot (realistically) shoot weddings without a decent portfolio to get your foot in the door..

The answer.

Advertise on some of the wedding forums - I take it you have been in some of the wedding forums doing a bit of market research? goto confetti.co.uk, hitched.co.uk or theweddingnetwork.co.uk - don`t blitz it as you will get kicked off, but I tell you now - if you put a small modest post, stating who you are, what your plans are and what you are offering (do the first one or two for free) then you will find your inbox filling up with people asking you to shoot their weddings. Hopefully you will get enough `bookings` to be able to fill up your port with wedding shots - come to an agreement with the couple that they spend a bit of extra time with you so you can take portfolio filling shots.

Then once you have a decent portfolio, start charging and planning the next stage of your business. Bear in mind that a website alone will not get you enough business in if you want to do this seriously - you will need to start looking at exhibiting at some wedding shows, or becoming a premium advertiser on some of the bigger wedding directories (mentioned above) - this costs money - I exhibit at the UK Wedding Show and for an averagely sized stand at one of these flagship shows you can expect to pay around £2500 for a weekend. However you will pick up a far better class of client at one of these exhibitions.

The other alternative is to goto www.photoassist.co.uk and offer your services as a wedding assistant - nothing beats working with a pro for a few months - its how I got started and proved invaluable - I learnt how to do thiong right, but more importantly, I learnt from the things I felt he was doing wrong.

But lets go back to basics - get some of those weddings (or other commissions) in place first and go from there... I am always willing to help out if you need a bit of advice - but you know me, I always shoot from the hip and it aint always pretty... and that's just my photography..

Hey Mark
I appreciate your input and advice and will certainly heed it and may well take you up on your offer of advice.

Apple iPhone 5

02/24/2010 04:33:16 PM · #4

Originally posted by JH:

Some initial proof-reading;

'Children' page
spelling pesonality / personality

'Portraits' page
sp favorite / favourite (british spelling for british audience!)
sp vist / visit
sp contemporay / contemporary
grammar: 'wide variety albums'/ 'wide variety of albums'

'Weddings' page
sp immagery / imagery
sp equisite exquisite
sp favorite / favourite

'Portfolios' page
sp favorite / favourite (you like that word!)

Bumping typos.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

02/24/2010 04:08:09 PM · #5

Simms

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

02/24/2010 04:06:51 PM · #6

02/24/2010 03:54:10 PM · #7

Originally posted by aliqui:

Looks pretty good. I took some notes...

About Us:
"We have their own studio in Milton Keynes but are equally comfortable working on location or visiting you in your own home with their incredible mobile studio"

You need to make up your mind. Are you talking about yourselves or in third person?

View your pictures:
"We hope you enjoy browsing you unique captures." --> Should be "...browsing your"

Portfolios:
"It dosn't matter..." --> Should be "It doesn't matter..."
"...arrange for hairstylist..." --> Should be "...arrange for a hairstylist..." or "...arrange for hairstylists..."

Hey Michelle
I really appreciate that information and I'll get on and change it asap.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

02/24/2010 03:52:57 PM · #8

ok it's very easy to take the moral high ground and of course I can't easily argue against it.

However as I said this is simply another tool to generate leads.
One thing i can guarantee is that if we have no wedding pictures on there we will have significantly less leads for that area and thats for sure.

We do have a wedding lead and I have explained to her that this is our first wedding and if it would make her more comfortable we would be more than happy
to take some shots for her way in advance of the wedding so she can see what we can deliver.

I have worked in sales for enough years to know that misleading people may come back to bite you, but I have also learned that if I can not generate enough leads
then I can not generate enough business and that point the bank comes to bite me!!

I keep stating that we have no intention at all of telling people that we took those shots even though there is nothing particularly special about them.

On a more positve note we are getting more and more portfolio business and have been invited to work for a new record label. The good thing about this type of business
as opposed to weddings is that the sales cycle is short and the turnaround of the business is fast. It's also a cash business so great run rate stuff.

aliqui

Nikon D300s

02/24/2010 03:41:51 PM · #9

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

02/24/2010 03:21:52 PM · #10

Sorry, guys, I see it like skip does.

When i see pictures on a photography website, that is implication that they belong to the photographer(s) that own the site. Other sites, for other services? Maybe. Maybe not.

If I look at a bakery and see all these wonderful looking wedding cakes, I would naturally assume the bakery is the one that did them.

At the worst, you could be setting yourself up. What if it is a particular image that draws a potential bride to you. She says, "I really like the style and look of XYZ on your website. Do that for my wedding." Uhhhh, hopefully, you are great imitators, because when you don't deliver, she is going to be ill.

Seriously guys, a bride contacts you, and you're going to say, "Great we can shoot your wedding, but know that you are our first wedding (or third or fifth)." She says, "Oh? Then, what about those shots on your website?" "oh, that is some stock pictures of what we want to do."

I applaud your "get up and go" and efforts thus far, but from my perspective, you are painting yourself into a corner that you may regret getting into.

Consider another similar issue. Perhaps I could buy/borrow some of skip's photojournalistic images to send to local papers to get my foot in the door of what I *could* do if they let me be a stringer?

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

02/24/2010 02:46:00 PM · #11

Originally posted by Skip:

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Originally posted by Skip:

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Originally posted by Tez:
you were using a stock image in your portfolio?

Yeah we have temporarily used a few stock images in the wedding section but all other images are our own.
Any constructive comments are most welcome though.

...uh...bad form, dudes...

photography portfolio sites are for advertising your capabilities, not stuff you'd like to do.

Anyone who has worked with us and has seen our work knows we are more than capable of producing the goods.

The unfortunate reality is that here in the UK if we don't show at least some images of weddings we will never get any wedding jobs.
Once we have the opportunity we will of course make the potential customer aware that this would be our first wedding and most likely
offer a very low rate as a result.
We are not looking to mislead anyone, we are simply using our combined 40 years of sales and marketing experience to get people through the door.

not trying to be pissy here, but i totally disagree with all your points here.

you guys have done great work and are obviously capable.

however, you are really misguided about marketing and breaking into the wedding photography market. i'd really suggest going to school on what others, like simms, did to get started. i'd be absolutely shocked if they did it by posting stock photos in their portfolio.

at the very least, you owe it to your visitors to make them aware that you did not shoot those images...

I hear what you say but at the end of the day the website is just another tool to generate leads.

We have no intention, as i said of misleading people, into thinking the wedding shots are ours.
Chris and I have a great deal of sales and marketing experience and all we need are leads and we'll do the rest.

Just for the record I know a number of wedding photographers and yes some did use stock images in albums as sales aids
when visiting prospects and worse still they did make out they took them lol

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

02/24/2010 12:46:06 PM · #12

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Originally posted by Skip:

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Originally posted by Tez:
you were using a stock image in your portfolio?

Yeah we have temporarily used a few stock images in the wedding section but all other images are our own.
Any constructive comments are most welcome though.

...uh...bad form, dudes...

photography portfolio sites are for advertising your capabilities, not stuff you'd like to do.

Anyone who has worked with us and has seen our work knows we are more than capable of producing the goods.

The unfortunate reality is that here in the UK if we don't show at least some images of weddings we will never get any wedding jobs.
Once we have the opportunity we will of course make the potential customer aware that this would be our first wedding and most likely
offer a very low rate as a result.
We are not looking to mislead anyone, we are simply using our combined 40 years of sales and marketing experience to get people through the door.

not trying to be pissy here, but i totally disagree with all your points here.

you guys have done great work and are obviously capable.

however, you are really misguided about marketing and breaking into the wedding photography market. i'd really suggest going to school on what others, like

simms, did to get started. i'd be absolutely shocked if they did it by posting stock photos in their portfolio.

at the very least, you owe it to your visitors to make them aware that you did not shoot those images...

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

02/24/2010 09:03:58 AM · #13

Originally posted by Skip:

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Originally posted by Tez:
you were using a stock image in your portfolio?

Yeah we have temporarily used a few stock images in the wedding section but all other images are our own.
Any constructive comments are most welcome though.

...uh...bad form, dudes...

photography portfolio sites are for advertising your capabilities, not stuff you'd like to do.

Anyone who has worked with us and has seen our work knows we are more than capable of producing the goods.

The unfortunate reality is that here in the UK if we don't show at least some images of weddings we will never get any wedding jobs.
Once we have the opportunity we will of course make the potential customer aware that this would be our first wedding and most likely
offer a very low rate as a result.
We are not looking to mislead anyone, we are simply using our combined 40 years of sales and marketing experience to get people through the door.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

02/24/2010 08:34:55 AM · #14

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Originally posted by Tez:
you were using a stock image in your portfolio?

Yeah we have temporarily used a few stock images in the wedding section but all other images are our own.
Any constructive comments are most welcome though.

...uh...bad form, dudes...

photography portfolio sites are for advertising your capabilities, not stuff you'd like to do.

02/24/2010 06:26:36 AM · #15

Originally posted by Tez:

you were using a stock image in your portfolio?

Yeah we have temporarily used a few stock images in the wedding section but all other images are our own.
Any constructive comments are most welcome though.

Tez

Hasselblad Hasselblad H3D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

02/23/2010 04:39:51 PM · #16

you were using a stock image in your portfolio?

kingskingdom

Hasselblad HC 3.5-4.5/50-110 mm

02/23/2010 04:11:40 PM · #17

Hey Harvey

It has music? wow I had no idea. That will be turned off instantly, if I can find the switch!
I will talk to pictureproof about the loading. I always log in so have not noticed it thanks for the feedback.

I wish I could sort the sizing out. I can lock the size but it is quite small. Perhaps I could split the content onto two pages to avoid scrolling

I can't really complain at the usability of picureproof though. To be able to write a website in an evening from their template speaks volumes to their softwares simple design. I guess as a result we lose some functionality but I cannot fault their service

Thanks for taking the time to lurk quietly but you will have to shout louder than that if you want Will to hear as he is not almost at pension age!

Cris!

HarveyG

Nikon D800

Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 EX APO IF HSM for Nikon

02/23/2010 08:15:47 AM · #18

Hello Crish and HELLO WILL. (Chris won't notice (slysdexic) and Will must be deaf (Age)) :)

Yup looks great, I've been stalking it for a while. Great images and good info. Warm and friendly approach for prospective clients.

It loads slow as the content is redirecting/being fed from/to online picture proof . com
Home page animation often fails to load or never does. This over a period of watching it for a week.
Music always gets boring, repeat visitors will get ticked off, I'd switch it off by default and allow them to switch it on.

Is the main window really not sizeable? Kind of messes with your entire image gallery being seen in full.
A lot of scrolling has to be done, especially when your gallery grows over the next few months.

But for a bunch of Nikon owners, not bad :)

EDIT: I'll keep an eye...

Message edited by author 2010-02-23 08:16:47.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

02/23/2010 04:56:45 AM · #19

love the imagery, but the loading is REALLY slow. took a long time for the home page image to come up. even though the galleries are slow, as well, the images make up for it. don't know how much patience the average browser is going to give you, though.

Simms

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

02/11/2010 01:25:51 PM · #20

Just a little niggle - in the portfolio some images are watermarked "Chris King" - bit confusing for the average punter..

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

02/11/2010 01:18:57 PM · #21

Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by Lutchenko:
This reminds me of an Eddie Izzard sketch in which he compares English vs American pronunciation.

He goes through the usual words such as Tomato and Leisure etc and then ends on Herbs.

He says you says Erbs we say Herbs...... mainly because there's a @£$%ing H in it lol

umm, then there's the story about the kid in college who turned to my husband and asked him if he could borrow his rubber.

Lol I just noticed this post Wendy...
yes this is one of those words that doesn't export too well from here eh

Phil

Canon EOS-7D

02/07/2010 07:47:25 PM · #22

IE 8.

It actually did it every other time I tried it yesterday but it's not doing it at all now.

Simms