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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> An Unhappy Model Critiques the "Professional".
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01/11/2008 02:46:16 AM · #1
Here is my take for his portrait (with a little twist)...

mikebyjlesgainousaj9.th.jpg
(click to enlarge)



Message edited by author 2008-01-11 11:40:21.
01/10/2008 11:15:32 PM · #2
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:


You bring ups a very good point. Everyone seems to think that about photography. That's why so many see weddings as easy money.

You have your TIME. That's worth something and costs something (unless you work for free, then give your paycheck back to your boss).
You have the prints or whatever the product was. My senior packages run $300-500 and 18-21% of that is material cost (prints, frames, etc). And I use a cheaper than average lab and do my own color correction. To let the lab handle it would run my costs up 50%.

perhaps you can take photos without a camera or lens or lights, but I can't. And I had to buy mine using money I got from...selling photos. I also have computers, PS and other software and that damned adobe, about every year they want money for an upgrade. I suppose I could have stuck with PS 5.5, but then I suppose I could have stuck with my first camera (kodak instamatic 126) too.

Advertising. Perhaps you can tell a friend who tells a friend and suddenly there is a line at your door of customers. I can get 3 or 4 that way in a year, but even at '$700' per I can't buy the gasoline i use in year on that meager total.

The average full time photography studio owner in the US makes less than $40,000 in personal income a year.

The average car repair place..well the last one I worked at charge $75/hour and paid the mechanics $15 an hour on average. And most mechanics could do more than 40 hours of work in a 40 hour work week, as they all worked flatrate. There were 6 of them. And while the owner wasn't poor he wasn't ripping people off either. The building cost him $1.2 million - YOU sign that mortgage paper see what your attitued about $75 an hour is then! LOL


AMEN!!!!

I build waterfalls for a living. The contract may be for $15,000 but I will bring over $150,000 worth of equipment to build it. A $700 photo being shot using well over 10 times that in equpment is nothing.

Someone may say, "oh I could build that myself".... well then you should have done it. When I got married I was so mad at the $$ we had to fork over to "some guy to take pictures". Oh how I have grown....

Just because someone is unhappy with the result never means they got ripped off.

01/09/2008 04:06:53 PM · #3
Originally posted by tpbremer:

As a photographer--sounds like it becomes really important to listen to your client. It seems like Mike's didn't listen to well. Its hard to do when you have your own vision, and if you can't compromise your vision for what your client wants then you should have them find a different photographer.

But one could argue that the photographer DID listen. His work was perfect for the person who PAID for the portraits, Mike's mother. Mike just has a different expectation of the photographer than his mother does.
01/09/2008 03:56:41 PM · #4
So I took the time to read through all this today.... phew! I'm not sure really why I did.

It seems like a huff over what is really a small issue that should be taken from Mike's point in the blog.

As a client--shop around to be aware of what you are getting! I'm a high school teacher and a student of mine just had her dad's friend take senior photos of her for free so that he could begin to build a portfolio. She got a nice book of images. She felt though that none of the pictures showed "her". She's a smiley type and the pictures taken were more serious "model-y". She liked the pictures, but not for her senior pictures. So she went out to a different studio to pay for the style she wanted. Not a big deal--the photographer now has some nice portfolio work that shows his style.

As a photographer--sounds like it becomes really important to listen to your client. It seems like Mike's didn't listen to well. Its hard to do when you have your own vision, and if you can't compromise your vision for what your client wants then you should have them find a different photographer.
01/01/2008 10:37:10 AM · #5
Originally posted by robs:



Wow $700 price = $700 pure profit... imagine, I could sell 4 cars for $25K and make a 100K per year :roll: Damn, I am in the wrong job.



You bring ups a very good point. Everyone seems to think that about photography. That's why so many see weddings as easy money.

You have your TIME. That's worth something and costs something (unless you work for free, then give your paycheck back to your boss).
You have the prints or whatever the product was. My senior packages run $300-500 and 18-21% of that is material cost (prints, frames, etc). And I use a cheaper than average lab and do my own color correction. To let the lab handle it would run my costs up 50%.

perhaps you can take photos without a camera or lens or lights, but I can't. And I had to buy mine using money I got from...selling photos. I also have computers, PS and other software and that damned adobe, about every year they want money for an upgrade. I suppose I could have stuck with PS 5.5, but then I suppose I could have stuck with my first camera (kodak instamatic 126) too.

Advertising. Perhaps you can tell a friend who tells a friend and suddenly there is a line at your door of customers. I can get 3 or 4 that way in a year, but even at '$700' per I can't buy the gasoline i use in year on that meager total.

The average full time photography studio owner in the US makes less than $40,000 in personal income a year.

The average car repair place..well the last one I worked at charge $75/hour and paid the mechanics $15 an hour on average. And most mechanics could do more than 40 hours of work in a 40 hour work week, as they all worked flatrate. There were 6 of them. And while the owner wasn't poor he wasn't ripping people off either. The building cost him $1.2 million - YOU sign that mortgage paper see what your attitued about $75 an hour is then! LOL
12/31/2007 05:31:33 PM · #6
Aw, come on now guys. A lot of intelligent and secretly articulate teens have been hiding on the internet for years and years now. Seriously - written his own site on Notepad and it ISN'T MySpace or FaceBook (not that I have anything against those sites, I just do :P ). If you knew the kids I knew in high school, you wouldn't be surprised at all.

And, hey now! It snowed in Tucson last year - it's not so unbelievable it'd be snowing in Phoenix!
366243642_ffc4064382_m.jpg
12/31/2007 01:41:21 AM · #7
Its not hostility at all. I just think alot of the things he said and the way he said them were odd. Not because its well written and articulate. I don't think the story is fake. I am sure that happens on a daily basis. Just do not think a 18 year old in hs wrote it, especially a male. You have your opinion and I have mine.

I never said anything bad about Joey. Its incredible what he has done for himself the past few years, very impressive. My issue is when people say he is the next best thing. Alot of his stuff has been done, nothing new about it. I think he is good but not even close to great status or the next great photographer. I am sure he would tell you the same.

Rox_Rox thanks and I hate to say but, but I'm not that good and you do have ability to take wonderful photographs.

Art move on to curb your enthusiasm. Its fake but funny as hell! I can spot fake things a mile away. Tongue in cheek for you guys that get carried away.

12/31/2007 12:46:15 AM · #8
...while the studio portrait is not great, it is far superior to the shot the student took himself. Composition, background, even lighting despite being a bit flat. I think that the kid should have confronted the photographer and told him/her how unsatisfied he was. Maybe the photographer would've re-shot the kid.
12/30/2007 08:11:58 PM · #9
Originally posted by rox_rox:

Originally posted by superdave:

Maybe if he signs up he can learn how to take a proper self portrait instead of explaining to the readers how the photographer did a bad job shooting him. Oh yeah guys its snowing in Phoenix! Hey its more believable.


What in the world?!!!

Sorry 31.gif superdave, I just don't see what you are trying to achieve with your hostility.


He's must be trying to affirm his status as DPC's resident grumpus.
12/30/2007 08:10:40 PM · #10
Originally posted by _eug:

God, I've missed Art while I was away...
12/30/2007 08:09:53 PM · #11
God, I've missed Art while I was away...

You can quote me on that.
12/30/2007 08:08:19 PM · #12
Originally posted by rox_rox:

BTW, I think you are fake. No one could be that funny without years of professional comedy training:)

I've read a few books and watched endless reruns of Seinfeld.
12/30/2007 08:08:14 PM · #13
Art's real name is Robin Williams ;)
12/30/2007 08:06:27 PM · #14
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

*reads thread. shakes head.*

Welcome to DPC, Mike (31.gif mikerosoftin2001). If that's your real name. Yeah, if it wasn't for 21.gif MikeJ and 31.gif superdave, I mighta believed your outlandish yarn. Man you really had me going there with that unbelievable tale of photographic adventure and drama. And I was all ready to donate lots and lots of money to your cause. I am so thankful to have people like 21.gif MikeJ and 31.gif superdave around with their ultra-heightened suspicion and keen sense of perception. It was pure brilliance picking up on your careless use of jargon. Yeah, Angela Landsbury's got nothin on our own dynamic detective duo. And the internet continues to be a safer place.


LOL!

You can't see it Ken, but I'm raising my glass to you. Salud!

BTW, I think you are fake. No one could be that funny without years of professional comedy training:)
12/30/2007 08:03:10 PM · #15
*reads thread. shakes head.*

Welcome to DPC, Mike (31.gif mikerosoftin2001). If that's your real name. Yeah, if it wasn't for 21.gif MikeJ and 31.gif superdave, I mighta believed your outlandish yarn. Man you really had me going there with that unbelievable tale of photographic adventure and drama. And I was all ready to donate lots and lots of money to your cause. I am so thankful to have people like 21.gif MikeJ and 31.gif superdave around with their ultra-heightened suspicion and keen sense of perception. It was pure brilliance picking up on your careless use of jargon. Yeah, Angela Landsbury's got nothin on our own dynamic detective duo. And the internet continues to be a safer place.

12/30/2007 07:57:28 PM · #16
Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by rox_rox:

Originally posted by superdave:

Maybe if he signs up he can learn how to take a proper self portrait instead of explaining to the readers how the photographer did a bad job shooting him. Oh yeah guys its snowing in Phoenix! Hey its more believable.


What in the world?!!!

Sorry 31.gif superdave, I just don't see what you are trying to achieve with your hostility.


Then again, he wasn't very nice to Joey L either....


Well, we all know Joey is a fake;) Thank goodness we have people like this to help us open our eyes!

hmmm...Maybe Mike is Joey?

Message edited by author 2007-12-30 19:57:59.
12/30/2007 07:53:48 PM · #17
Originally posted by rox_rox:

Originally posted by superdave:

Maybe if he signs up he can learn how to take a proper self portrait instead of explaining to the readers how the photographer did a bad job shooting him. Oh yeah guys its snowing in Phoenix! Hey its more believable.


What in the world?!!!

Sorry 31.gif superdave, I just don't see what you are trying to achieve with your hostility.


Then again, he wasn't very nice to Joey L either....
12/30/2007 07:45:09 PM · #18
Originally posted by superdave:

Maybe if he signs up he can learn how to take a proper self portrait instead of explaining to the readers how the photographer did a bad job shooting him. Oh yeah guys its snowing in Phoenix! Hey its more believable.


What in the world?!!!

Sorry 31.gif superdave, I just don't see what you are trying to achieve with your hostility.

What if I told you that I don't believe you have only taken "few hundred pics"? Your work is way too good; and the way you've critiqued other photographers on this site shows a level of knowledge beyond your proclaimed expertise. I wish I had your abilities, I'd sure as he#& be a lot more gracious.
12/30/2007 07:04:40 PM · #19
Maybe if he signs up he can learn how to take a proper self portrait instead of explaining to the readers how the photographer did a bad job shooting him. Oh yeah guys its snowing in Phoenix! Hey its more believable.
12/30/2007 06:57:10 PM · #20
I think the 'professional' pic of him looks pornish and suggestive, or atleast male calendar-ish. I dunno. I don't like either pic. LOL
12/30/2007 06:47:25 PM · #21
Originally posted by mikerosoftin2001:

...Originally I was put out by the $5/month fee, but it's looking like it's worth my money.


Hi Mike, and welcome to the insanity that is DPC! Remember that if you sign up annually, it's only $25/year, so significantly cheaper that $5/month. It is a great deal at either price, and it's a great community.
12/30/2007 06:07:52 PM · #22
Originally posted by mikerosoftin2001:

I'm glad you guys liked my writing but I used the word "ridiculous" four times! Come on! What adult would do something silly like that? ;-)

</me raises hand> What's worse is that 50% of the time I spell it 'rediculous'. Thank goodness for the Google toolbar.
12/30/2007 05:30:00 PM · #23
Originally posted by mikerosoftin2001:

I'm glad you guys liked my writing but I used the word "ridiculous" four times! Come on! What adult would do something silly like that? ;-)

I'm actually really awful when I'm writing about stuff that doesn't matter to me. Right now I'm a freshman at MIT and I failed my Freshman Evaluation Essay so they put me in this remedial writing class with all of these people from overseas who barely spoke english...I got an A-.

Thank you all for your comments and I think I'm joining dpchallenge. Originally I was put out by the $5/month fee, but it's looking like it's worth my money.


SO glad to hear that!! Welcome aboard!! You will soon be assimilated addicted!! :)
12/30/2007 04:58:45 PM · #24
Originally posted by dwterry:

Originally posted by mikerosoftin2001:

Thank you all for your comments and I think I'm joining dpchallenge.


I like the way you let criticism slide off, we should all take a lesson. I hope you do join. We'd love to have you here!


I agree entirely. It's this kind of attitude that will make him a success in life.
12/30/2007 04:50:48 PM · #25
Originally posted by mikerosoftin2001:

Thank you all for your comments and I think I'm joining dpchallenge.


I like the way you let criticism slide off, we should all take a lesson. I hope you do join. We'd love to have you here!

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