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08/07/2010 11:11:06 AM · #1 |
Originally posted by Tammster:
Photoshop is so amazingly complex that I feel plenty challenged learning everything it has to offer and to me, the sky's the limit. I want to learn every possible thing and imposing restrictions (in photoshop) that I will truly never need to impose on myself is not beneficial to me.
So, I will rephrase the sentence that does seem silly on its own: "In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques IN PHOTOSHOP." I have the full $800+ software to learn and I bet I'm not even 10% there. |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I've actually been using Elements 7 now, not so much my CS2. It's easier, and I'm not so much finding myself missing all the extras.
I've not been one to go out of my way to learn how to fix things after the fact when I feel that what makes me really excited about photography is getting the image as good as is humanly possible before I ever get it into PS. I'll never be a PP guru.......I'd rather spend my time out walking my camera, and learning how to do my best out there.
Personally, full blown CS is incredibly daunting to me, and I really don't want to invest that much time to get to know it intimately.
I guess I've just got a different view on the subject. |
Originally posted by Jac:
What? You're the Topaz king here Jeb. lol |
Yes, but Topaz is exceedingly easy for me to use having had some practice, I like the way it works, and it hitches on to any PS program. I have it in my laptop with Elements 7. It's also a global filter, so it doesn't get bombed in Basic. You just have to be careful not to push it too far if you don't want to have it questioned.
It's funny......but I actually love the way it works in B&W, yet one of the most common complaints I hear about its overuse is that it renders images cartoonish.
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08/07/2010 09:40:55 AM · #2 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Tammster:
Photoshop is so amazingly complex that I feel plenty challenged learning everything it has to offer and to me, the sky's the limit. I want to learn every possible thing and imposing restrictions (in photoshop) that I will truly never need to impose on myself is not beneficial to me.
So, I will rephrase the sentence that does seem silly on its own: "In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques IN PHOTOSHOP." I have the full $800+ software to learn and I bet I'm not even 10% there. |
I've actually been using Elements 7 now, not so much my CS2. It's easier, and I'm not so much finding myself missing all the extras.
I've not been one to go out of my way to learn how to fix things after the fact when I feel that what makes me really excited about photography is getting the image as good as is humanly possible before I ever get it into PS. I'll never be a PP guru.......I'd rather spend my time out walking my camera, and learning how to do my best out there.
Personally, full blown CS is incredibly daunting to me, and I really don't want to invest that much time to get to know it intimately.
I guess I've just got a different view on the subject. |
What? You're the Topaz king here Jeb. lol |
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08/07/2010 07:13:30 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by bergiekat:
Originally posted by david_c:
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Maybe it's time to retire Basic Rules permanently? |
YES. >:-[ |
NO!) :~D |
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08/06/2010 11:41:00 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by bergiekat:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
la la la la la I can't hear you la la la la la |
Pull that pitch fork outta your ear! :P |
I would clone it out, but well, you know the rules...... |
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08/06/2010 11:36:28 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
la la la la la I can't hear you la la la la la |
Pull that pitch fork outta your ear! :P |
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08/06/2010 11:26:00 PM · #6 |
| la la la la la I can't hear you la la la la la |
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08/06/2010 11:22:49 PM · #7 |
Without the constraints of basic I don't think I would have tried to replicate the techniques of  graphicfunk.
I learned a ton about classic in-camera manipulation lighting & setup. (I should have called it Funk's Miracle, still kicking myself for that one. :-P)
But I understand the desire to liberate some of the editing options for basic. For example, if I could do some limited cloning and layer work on the background of the above homage, it could have been perfect. But then again the need for those tools just shows I did not get it right in camera ...
Just sayin'
:-) |
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08/06/2010 11:09:37 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by The_Tourist:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by bergiekat:
Originally posted by david_c:
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Maybe it's time to retire Basic Rules permanently? |
YES. >:-[ |
NO!) :~D |
yes. |
nein |
Oh yeah...try This for size :O)
Ray |
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08/06/2010 11:07:47 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by bergiekat:
Originally posted by david_c:
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Maybe it's time to retire Basic Rules permanently? |
YES. >:-[ |
NO!) :~D |
yes. |
NO...people don't have to enter the basic editing challenges, but those of us not able to create mythical creatures or put Godzilla ( :P ) into a photograph, may only want to enter the basic editing challenges to feel like we have a fair shot. |
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08/06/2010 11:06:02 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by bergiekat:
Originally posted by david_c:
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Maybe it's time to retire Basic Rules permanently? |
YES. >:-[ |
NO!) :~D |
yes. |
nein |
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08/06/2010 11:01:24 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by bergiekat:
Originally posted by david_c:
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Maybe it's time to retire Basic Rules permanently? |
YES. >:-[ |
NO!) :~D |
yes. |
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08/06/2010 10:43:04 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by david_c:
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Maybe it's time to retire Basic Rules permanently? |
YES. >:-[ |
NO!) :~D
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08/06/2010 05:18:33 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Maybe it's time to retire Basic Rules permanently? |
YES. >:-[
Message edited by author 2010-08-06 17:19:11.
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07/31/2010 08:37:54 PM · #14 |
| I've gone back to the op to see if we were still hashing out the right angle here. Basically (no pun intended), he wants to eliminate Basic Editing. I don't think there's a chance that will happen, as it is, in and of itself, challenging. For anyone who doesn't like Basic, don't enter those challenges. |
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07/29/2010 08:49:03 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I've not been one to go out of my way to learn how to fix things after the fact when I feel that what makes me really excited about photography is getting the image as good as is humanly possible before I ever get it into PS. I'll never be a PP guru....... |
Originally posted by Tammster:
Interesting, coming from one of the most talented Topaz users I have ever seen. So it seems to me that in almost all of your entries, you fix pretty much everything after the fact (and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because you do an amazing job with Topaz). You might not be a Photoshop/Elements guru but I consider you a Topaz guru. :) |
LOL!!! I'm not sure whether to say thanks or ouch! Remind me never to piss you off!
Let me see if I can explain where I'm coming from. Here's one of my "Places"....I was totally in love with this hallway in this old steel mill/pipe foundry.
I see things diferently than they are, in my mind's eye.....what I do with Topaz is to enhance, and to try to recreate what it is that I see, the way I see it. The editing characteristics of Topaz just particularly resonate withthe vision I try to convey. This was what I did to that original shot to attempt to achieve that....
Is it accurate? No. Is it over-processed? I'm sure to quite a few, definitely. Is it the vision I have of that beautiful old building? Closest thing I've ever been able to produce.
BUT......I don't use Topaz to do anything other then to change the lighting, shadows, texture, and it also seems to have a decided cooling effect as well. But Topaz is a global adjustment; if there's garbage in the shot, then there's nothing I can do.
I've only learned how to use the clone tool in the last year or so, and my dodging and burning is laughable. Bear tried mightily to get me to work with layers, but I just get exasperated, give up, and go back to my old bad habits.
So I see Basic as a means of leveling the playing field against all those people who can, and do, have the skills, knowledge, and experience. Do I enter advanced challenges? You bet! My three highest scores, and five of the six ribbons I've gotten were all in Advanced. I don't let it stop me, bu I'd rather not see it go away, either.
Thanks again for the nice comment on my Topaz skills. I really do appreciate that.
Message edited by author 2010-07-29 20:50:50.
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07/29/2010 08:19:37 PM · #16 |
Hi Jeffrey! :-D
Message edited by author 2010-07-30 00:01:19. |
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07/29/2010 08:07:01 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Tammster:
Originally posted by levyj413:
Now I find that a few swipes on a few sliders in iPhoto and I'm really happy with most of my photos. Every once in a while I climb back into PS, but not most of the time. |
If you're happy with that level of editing (as many others in this thread have indicated), nothing would stop you from doing the same exact thing in advanced editing. |
Right. But if you actually want to compete in an advanced editing challenge, and you don't have every single spot absolutely perfect, you don't stand a chance (cue the people who will now show shots with basic editing that ribboned - my point stands, as I mean in general, not isolated examples). Voters are unbelievably persnickety.
Anyway, on another note, I seem to remember that advanced rules were held out as a temptation for people to join as paying members, with occasional open challenges using advanced editing to help people see what they're missing. |
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07/29/2010 04:56:15 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I've not been one to go out of my way to learn how to fix things after the fact when I feel that what makes me really excited about photography is getting the image as good as is humanly possible before I ever get it into PS. I'll never be a PP guru....... |
Interesting, coming from one of the most talented Topaz users I have ever seen. So it seems to me that in almost all of your entries, you fix pretty much everything after the fact (and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because you do an amazing job with Topaz). You might not be a Photoshop/Elements guru but I consider you a Topaz guru. :) |
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07/29/2010 04:38:56 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Tammster:
Photoshop is so amazingly complex that I feel plenty challenged learning everything it has to offer and to me, the sky's the limit. I want to learn every possible thing and imposing restrictions (in photoshop) that I will truly never need to impose on myself is not beneficial to me.
So, I will rephrase the sentence that does seem silly on its own: "In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques IN PHOTOSHOP." I have the full $800+ software to learn and I bet I'm not even 10% there. |
I've actually been using Elements 7 now, not so much my CS2. It's easier, and I'm not so much finding myself missing all the extras.
I've not been one to go out of my way to learn how to fix things after the fact when I feel that what makes me really excited about photography is getting the image as good as is humanly possible before I ever get it into PS. I'll never be a PP guru.......I'd rather spend my time out walking my camera, and learning how to do my best out there.
Personally, full blown CS is incredibly daunting to me, and I really don't want to invest that much time to get to know it intimately.
I guess I've just got a different view on the subject.
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07/29/2010 04:28:12 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Tammster:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Tammster:
I have had this happen... but I learn more and useful techniques when I can play around in advanced. In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques. I can learn the easiest and/or most effective way to do something to make my picture look as good as it possibly can (which is my goal)... not just as good as I am allowed to in basic. |
Actually, you learn more when you're forced to push yourself. I had to laugh when you said that you don't have to learn workaround techniques in the real world.
Where on earth might THAT be????? LOL!!! LIFE is a contstant succession of workarounds. At least in the world where I live, you never get to do it exactly the way you want so it comes out perfectly. |
Funny...
Photoshop is so amazingly complex that I feel plenty challenged learning everything it has to offer and to me, the sky's the limit. I want to learn every possible thing and imposing restrictions (in photoshop) that I will truly never need to impose on myself is not beneficial to me.
So, I will rephrase the sentence that does seem silly on its own: "In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques IN PHOTOSHOP." I have the full $800+ software to learn and I bet I'm not even 10% there. |
One thing that should be obvious is that there is a significant difference in time required to do global edits and spot edits... Advanced is focused on spot editing, and you can bet I spend quite a bit more time on those entries.. In the end, it's just amusing that there's one thread on here screaming for diversity, and another wanting to reduce diversity..
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07/29/2010 04:23:38 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Tammster:
I have had this happen... but I learn more and useful techniques when I can play around in advanced. In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques. I can learn the easiest and/or most effective way to do something to make my picture look as good as it possibly can (which is my goal)... not just as good as I am allowed to in basic. |
Actually, you learn more when you're forced to push yourself. I had to laugh when you said that you don't have to learn workaround techniques in the real world.
Where on earth might THAT be????? LOL!!! LIFE is a contstant succession of workarounds. At least in the world where I live, you never get to do it exactly the way you want so it comes out perfectly. |
Funny...
Photoshop is so amazingly complex that I feel plenty challenged learning everything it has to offer and to me, the sky's the limit. I want to learn every possible thing and imposing restrictions (in photoshop) that I will truly never need to impose on myself is not beneficial to me.
So, I will rephrase the sentence that does seem silly on its own: "In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques IN PHOTOSHOP." I have the full $800+ software to learn and I bet I'm not even 10% there. |
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07/29/2010 04:16:06 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by Tammster:
I have had this happen... but I learn more and useful techniques when I can play around in advanced. In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques. I can learn the easiest and/or most effective way to do something to make my picture look as good as it possibly can (which is my goal)... not just as good as I am allowed to in basic. |
Actually, you learn more when you're forced to push yourself. I had to laugh when you said that you don't have to learn workaround techniques in the real world.
Where on earth might THAT be????? LOL!!! LIFE is a contstant succession of workarounds. At least in the world where I live, you never get to do it exactly the way you want so it comes out perfectly.
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07/29/2010 02:08:02 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by giantmike:
Originally posted by Tammster:
If someone is absolutely thrilled with their basic edit, why not compete in advanced? If they think their picture is exactly what they want it shouldn't matter what other photo they're competing against. Most people here on this thread seem to want basic rules because they are pleased with their results under basic... and they would be allowed to submit that same great shot in an advanced rules challenge. |
I agree that there is no problem with self-imposing the basic rule-set on yourself. In fact, almost every one of my Advanced entries would have been legal in Basic as well.
But, I think you're missing the point of this website: to learn. I have had a number of entries in basic in which I wished the Advanced rules were in place to help out. However, Because it was Basic, I HAD to be creative, and find new ways to make my photo as good as possible. Therefore, I was forced to learn new techniques, and the mission of the site was accomplished. |
I have had this happen... but I learn more and useful techniques when I can play around in advanced. In the real world, I don't have to learn "workaround" techniques. I can learn the easiest and/or most effective way to do something to make my picture look as good as it possibly can (which is my goal)... not just as good as I am allowed to in basic. |
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07/29/2010 01:56:12 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Tammster:
If someone is absolutely thrilled with their basic edit, why not compete in advanced? If they think their picture is exactly what they want it shouldn't matter what other photo they're competing against. Most people here on this thread seem to want basic rules because they are pleased with their results under basic... and they would be allowed to submit that same great shot in an advanced rules challenge. |
I agree that there is no problem with self-imposing the basic rule-set on yourself. In fact, almost every one of my Advanced entries would have been legal in Basic as well.
But, I think you're missing the point of this website: to learn. I have had a number of entries in basic in which I wished the Advanced rules were in place to help out. However, Because it was Basic, I HAD to be creative, and find new ways to make my photo as good as possible. Therefore, I was forced to learn new techniques, and the mission of the site was accomplished. |
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07/29/2010 01:41:47 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
soapbox
I'm of the opinion that it isn't necessarily basic or advanced editing that makes the shot wonderful. Personally, I think editing is a natural part of this medium, and see no problems with that. I accept that it has always been such. But at the same time, I don't think there is any direct correlation between means and ends.I think many are either ignoring or oblivious to the fact that what ultimately makes a good shot, be it basic, advanced, minimal or expert, is the vision. You have to think "I will take this photo, and I know I will do this and that to accentuate and perfect it." Great photos aren't the steps, it's knowing which steps to take when.
Sure, you can randomly screw with a photo, and turn out one good for every 50 turd shots. But I'm talking how individuals turn out concerted efforts, and consistently good products.
I like basic, if not for anything but the fact that it is less daunting for many. This is especially true for those who are yet to have any real understanding of the editing process, and whose playground is outright editing experimentation. How can one develop vision, and foresight, without confidence in the means? If I assumed that all quality photos required immense amounts of crazy difficult editing, it would seem very, very daunting, and hopeless, to boot. But really, so long as there is no mention of the organic process that exists between seeing a scene, understanding what it can/will grow into, and then editing it to accomplish such and so long as we continue to pretend that a shot is either all one or the other, there will be no real progress made.
/soapbox. |
Hear, hear.
Well said.. (next time I would like to be able to say well spaced too ;) )... |
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