?s about Xtianity but were afraid to ask

02/21/2012 05:59:14 PM · #1651

Originally posted by blindjustice:

its exactly the opposite. If God exists, I don't believe you have to choose. The first is assumed, its easy. The loving your neighbor part is the tough part, is it not. Thats why its easy to be a murdering philandering junkie your whole life and say at the end-"all I need to do is believe and I am saved."

"Believe" and "love" are not synonymous. ("Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that�and shudder.")

You are making a mistake that actually is common even among Christian circles. Try not to get salvation mixed up in the equation.

But, hey, I agree with you that the two overlap. As I said before, loving your neighbor is the what; loving God is the why.

EDIT: Sorry, messing around with it for clarity.

Message edited by author 2012-02-21 18:02:05.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

02/21/2012 06:11:06 PM · #1652

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

"Believe" and "love" are not synonymous. ("Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

...and what of those who demonstrate their "love" with deeds but don't believe in a supreme being...where is the "Why" that initiates the process?

Ray

02/21/2012 06:36:42 PM · #1653

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

"Believe" and "love" are not synonymous. ("Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

...and what of those who demonstrate their "love" with deeds but don't believe in a supreme being...where is the "Why" that initiates the process?

Ray

Good question, Ray. It's not for me to answer.

02/21/2012 08:38:42 PM · #1654

Originally posted by blindjustice:

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

02/21/2012 08:41:20 PM · #1655

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

"Believe" and "love" are not synonymous. ("Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Originally posted by RayEthier:

...and what of those who demonstrate their "love" with deeds but don't believe in a supreme being...where is the "Why" that initiates the process?

Ray

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Good question, Ray. It's not for me to answer.

Gee......maybe it's the basic goodness of humans.

Message edited by author 2012-02-21 20:42:43.

blindjustice

Canon EOS-60D

02/21/2012 09:40:19 PM · #1656

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
"Believe" and "love" are not synonymous. ("Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Originally posted by RayEthier:
...and what of those who demonstrate their "love" with deeds but don't believe in a supreme being...where is the "Why" that initiates the process?

Ray

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Good question, Ray. It's not for me to answer.

Gee......maybe it's the basic goodness of humans.

Nullix

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

02/22/2012 10:26:29 AM · #1657

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Gee......maybe it's the basic goodness of humans.

Maybe there's some intelligence behind the goodness of humans. With all the chaos and entropy in the universe, I wonder where that came from?

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

02/22/2012 11:30:12 AM · #1658

If there is no real meaning or purpose in life and people are free to discover and create their own, I have never understood why there is so much antagonism and bitterness toward people doing just that. If I want my meaning and purpose to involve a story about a guy hanging on a tree, how is that any less valid than any other meaning or purpose? Why do some people literally appear on the site only to post in these threads? Why do they care? It's always fascinated me.

Denielle

Canon EOS-7D Mark II

02/22/2012 11:45:48 AM · #1659

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Why do some people literally appear on the site only to post in these threads? Why do they care? It's always fascinated me.

For the drama it stirs up. Of course.

CJinCA

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

02/22/2012 12:01:46 PM · #1660

Originally posted by dyridings:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Why do some people literally appear on the site only to post in these threads? Why do they care? It's always fascinated me.

For the drama it stirs up. Of course.

That also answers the question of "Why do people start these threads?". :-D

Message edited by author 2012-02-22 12:07:10.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

02/22/2012 12:22:58 PM · #1661

Originally posted by Nullix:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Gee......maybe it's the basic goodness of humans.

Maybe there's some intelligence behind the goodness of humans. With all the chaos and entropy in the universe, I wonder where that came from?

Perhaps but you tend to lose the intelligence when you start to make stuff up to explain it.

Denielle

Canon EOS-7D Mark II

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

02/22/2012 12:24:05 PM · #1662

Originally posted by CJinCA:

Originally posted by dyridings:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Why do some people literally appear on the site only to post in these threads? Why do they care? It's always fascinated me.

For the drama it stirs up. Of course.

That also answers the question of "Why do people start these threads?". :-D

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

02/22/2012 02:02:05 PM · #1663

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

If I want my meaning and purpose to involve a story about a guy hanging on a tree, how is that any less valid than any other meaning or purpose? Why do some people literally appear on the site only to post in these threads? Why do they care? It's always fascinated me.

We "care" because of the history of those with similar belief systems imposing them on unwilling subjects, in the form of civil law being based on Biblical references (Christian Sharia), requiring public conversion upon pain of subjegation/death (see the history of the California Missions for a fairly recent example), etc., and the insistence upon the absolute truth of your belief set and the subsequent devaluation and derogation of all alternative belief sets.

Why are the Bishops attempting to interfere with the ability of female civilian employees to obtain contraception on the same basis as any other citizen, even though those employees may adhere to some other belief system? Whether using contraception is really a sin is something each woman will have to face when/if she meets her god, but it's really no business of some celibate octogenarian in Italy ...

02/22/2012 04:31:45 PM · #1664

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
If I want my meaning and purpose to involve a story about a guy hanging on a tree, how is that any less valid than any other meaning or purpose? Why do some people literally appear on the site only to post in these threads? Why do they care? It's always fascinated me.

We "care" because of the history of those with similar belief systems imposing them on unwilling subjects, in the form of civil law being based on Biblical references (Christian Sharia), requiring public conversion upon pain of subjegation/death (see the history of the California Missions for a fairly recent example), etc., and the insistence upon the absolute truth of your belief set and the subsequent devaluation and derogation of all alternative belief sets.

Why are the Bishops attempting to interfere with the ability of female civilian employees to obtain contraception on the same basis as any other citizen, even though those employees may adhere to some other belief system? Whether using contraception is really a sin is something each woman will have to face when/if she meets her god, but it's really no business of some celibate octogenarian in Italy ...

I understand, but I also see the irony of you saying, "I am going to push and fight for the spread of my system because the current system pushes and fights for its own spread." You are also, naturally, hyperbolizing what you view as the downside of my purpose and meaning (Christian Sharia, my foot). Come up and spend a day with me. I'll take you to the Eugene Mission. I'll take you to the HIV Alliance or to the two acre garden that gives its produce to the food pantry. It won't seem quite as barbaric when you get through.

Message edited by author 2012-02-22 16:32:04.

02/22/2012 04:36:45 PM · #1665

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Gee......maybe it's the basic goodness of humans.

Originally posted by Nullix:

Maybe there's some intelligence behind the goodness of humans. With all the chaos and entropy in the universe, I wonder where that came from?

Originally posted by yanko:

Perhaps but you tend to lose the intelligence when you start to make stuff up to explain it.

ROFLMAO!!!
Yeah.....how about that?

02/22/2012 04:38:03 PM · #1666

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Gee......maybe it's the basic goodness of humans.

Originally posted by Nullix:

Maybe there's some intelligence behind the goodness of humans. With all the chaos and entropy in the universe, I wonder where that came from?

Or maybe there's not. There's certainly no proof.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

02/22/2012 04:45:44 PM · #1667

Does anybody remember the Looney Tunes with the little cat and the large cat duo. The little cat was the brains and the big cat was the oaf and would just jump around singing the praises of the little cat? "George is my friend!"

Ya, I remember those.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

02/22/2012 05:07:36 PM · #1668

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Come up and spend a day with me. I'll take you to the Eugene Mission. I'll take you to the HIV Alliance or to the two acre garden that gives its produce to the food pantry. It won't seem quite as barbaric when you get through.

No one disputes that religious people of all stripes perform good works, only whether the existence of a god is required motivation or inspiration. And those good works are at least partly balanced by barbarous evils carried out in God's name.

Christian teachings are not the problem, authoritarian governing structures are the problem, within the both the religious and secular worlds.

If I ever end up driving up to Washington again, I'll try to arrange for a stopover in Eugene. My uncle used to live near there (up the McKenzie River a ways) -- it's a beautiful area.

02/22/2012 05:21:03 PM · #1669

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Come up and spend a day with me. I'll take you to the Eugene Mission. I'll take you to the HIV Alliance or to the two acre garden that gives its produce to the food pantry. It won't seem quite as barbaric when you get through.

No one disputes that religious people of all stripes perform good works, only whether the existence of a god is required motivation or inspiration. And those good works are at least partly balanced by barbarous evils carried out in God's name.

Christian teachings are not the problem, authoritarian governing structures are the problem, within the both the religious and secular worlds.

If I ever end up driving up to Washington again, I'll try to arrange for a stopover in Eugene. My uncle used to live near there (up the McKenzie River a ways) -- it's a beautiful area.

Here's the issue. ALL good done by humans is balanced by evil. Why you consider this to be only true in religious circles? I'm not sure. Your good is balanced by your own evil. My good. My evil.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

02/22/2012 06:23:27 PM · #1670

Originally posted by Nullix:

No dispute about the intelligence...whether goodness is representative of the existence of a god is truly debatable.

Ray

blindjustice

Canon EOS-60D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

02/22/2012 06:59:13 PM · #1671

I dont watch many cartoons, but I do read bumperstickers. My favorite is "Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you're an a-hole."

I always think about putting it on my bro in laws car, and removing the jesus loves you part!

Message edited by author 2012-02-22 19:01:30.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

02/25/2012 03:41:21 PM · #1672

Originally posted by blindjustice:

You can't do that...Jesus loves everybody.

Ray

dtremain

Canon EOS 80D

Canon EF 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 II

02/28/2012 12:48:04 PM · #1673

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by dtremain:
You meant for this to sound ridiculous. Right?

It sounded ridiculous when you posted it. Changing the god of the day doesn't make it less so. You're comparing a real, naturalistic threat with an imagined, supernatural threat. The comparison is apples and orange fairy dust. If you knock on my door to warn me that my car is rolling down a hill or that a forest fire is headed our way, I'll be grateful for the heads up. If you do it because a dragon is coming or the gods are angry, no matter how sincere your belief, be sure to watch your fingers when the door closes.

So, you do agree that a person may act obnoxiously out of concern and good will, even if the threat they attempt to warn about is not, in fact, real or even plausible. Your decision about their obnoxiousity appears to be dependent on your determination regarding the validity of their warning, when

RayEthier's ponderance was on their motivation. Their motivation. Their point of view. Doesn't make their concern/warning any more or less valid, nor does it make their behavior - if unwanted by you - any less obnoxious. Your point of view.

05/22/2013 12:40:43 PM · #1674

Old thread resurrection, but the title fits perfectly.

I'm toying with putting a class/small group discussion together in the fall at my church which will address the "tough questions" people have. I thought I'd open it up to the pack of wolves here on DPC Rant to make sure I'm addressing the REALLY tough questions. ;)

So, this is a serious request. If YOU were to find yourself coerced into taking a "tough questions" class at my church, what questions would you want discussed? I'm looking for between five and ten total.

Off the top of my head I have some easy classics:

The problem of evil. What does it say about God when bad things happen?
Who made God, or, where does it all begin?
Has Science disproved Christianity?
What's up with Hell?

Ok. Dig in!

Mike